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  • Police Involvement in Trashed Tenancies

    According to Tenancies Wars, (badly) damaging a tenancy property breaches the Crimes Act. But - supposedly - when asked to investigate, police bow out swiftly, murmuring that such damage is an RTA matter. Is it?

    Has anyone tried involving the Police in any wilful damage of a residential tenancy?

    If not - why not? Or, if so, how'd it go?

    Have a look at the Media Release from Mike Butler, here on the PT Forums.

    And - while I'm at it - has anyone reported a serious breach of the RTA by tenants, to the Tenancy Services Compliance & Investigations team? If so, how did that work out?
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  • #2
    Sent this in last week Perry.

    1. How many applications were made by MBIE to the Tenancy Tribunal where a landlord was the respondent?
    2. How many applications were made by MBIE to the Tenancy Tribunal where a tenant was the respondent?
    3. How many bonds were held by Tenancy Services?
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    • #3
      PI? You May Wake Up in Hell, Tomorrow!

      Still waiting for my second (OIA-type) information request to TS.

      When I get the reply, I'm not expecting anything other than:

      The Tenancy Services Compliance & Investigations Team is not about investigating RTA breaches, unless such breaches are by PIs or PMs. The Tenancy Services Compliance & Investigations Team is certainly not about chasing RTA-breaching tenants. (Because the former option is more politically defensible than the latter.)

      They won't say that - of course. But that will be the deductible inference of the 'official' statitistics.

      It's high time that PIs stood up for themselves and became more militant.

      It's also well past time that pertinent questions were asked in parliament.

      How many MPs are also PIs? (Stuart Nash is one I know of. He told me he has one rental.)

      PIs need to pin down property-investing-type parliamentary representatives and put some hard questions to them. And - where possible - publicise the replies.

      And where the hell is the Winston First crowd in all this?
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      • #4
        Interestingly Perry.

        My friend put an OIA in which was identical to mine about 10 days ago. He has his reply, I'm still waiting.
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        • #5
          Where is the backlash against the insanity from National?
          Oh wait - they're Labour Lite.
          The three most harmful addictions are heroin, carbohydrates and a monthly salary - Fred Wilson.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Perry View Post
            It's high time that PIs stood up for themselves and became more militant.
            The nurses and teachers strikes get lots of media attention. It's easy to ignore the odd LL selling up here and there but if we all issued 90 day notices at once...

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            • #7
              Originally posted by PC View Post
              Where is the backlash against the insanity from National?
              Which particular bit of insanity did you have in mind?
              Last edited by Perry; 05-10-2018, 09:29 AM.
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              • #8
                They could start with the anti-smacking law...
                Another missed opportunity for the blue commies.
                The three most harmful addictions are heroin, carbohydrates and a monthly salary - Fred Wilson.

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                • #9
                  One of the most mendacious aspect of the W'gton woodenheads is how they rail against so many things in opposition and rescind so few of those laws, when in power.
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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Learning View Post
                    It's easy to ignore the odd LL selling up here and there but if we all issued 90 day notices at once...
                    What are the pros and cons of such an idea?

                    Or - for example -

                    All LLs lodging a rent increase notice, pursuant to section 24. (Except for anyone who has increased the rent in the last 180 days)

                    All LLs giving notice to tenant of intention to sell section 47 (That would inconvenience many REAs, unfortunately.)

                    Get your thinking caps on.
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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by PC View Post
                      Where is the backlash against the insanity from National?
                      Oh wait - they're Labour Lite.
                      To be fair, it is only the consultation phase, no decisions yet. Not a lot of point is announcing policy yet, and in fact they have said policy will be announced in 2020.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Learning View Post
                        It's easy to ignore the odd LL selling up here and there but if we all issued 90 day notices at once...
                        This is what I suggested on here 6 months ago. This idea should be taken more seriously. This is essentially a strike action from LL’s that could be easily coordinated by of one the PI associations
                        Last edited by Don't believe the Hype; 06-10-2018, 05:50 AM.

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                        • #13
                          LLs Doing Nothing Will Mean LLs Being Done

                          Originally posted by Perry View Post
                          All LLs lodging a rent increase notice, pursuant to section 24. (Except for anyone who has increased the rent in the last 180 days)

                          All LLs giving notice to tenant of intention to sell section 47 (That would inconvenience many REAs, unfortunately.

                          Originally posted by Learning View Post
                          The nurses and teachers strikes get lots of media attention. It's easy to ignore the odd LL selling up here and there but if we all issued 90 day notices at once...
                          Originally posted by Don't believe the Hype View Post
                          This is what I suggested on here 6 months ago. This idea should be taken more seriously. This is essentially a strike action from LL’s that could be easily coordinated by of one the PI associations
                          What are the pros and cons of such an idea? That's a direct question to everyone reading this thread.

                          How many LLs would heed such a request?

                          I would be reluctant to do that because I have good tenants whom I do not want to needlessly annoy.

                          I could explain the motives to them, but . . .

                          What risks are there of a legislative / parliamentary / TT Kangaroo Kourt counter measure?

                          A notice of rent increase may be less problematic. But is there something else that could be done, that would not adversely affect our tenants?

                          E.g. I've already suggested RTA section 5 (1)[r]

                          Such an idea will need deeper reflection by smarter minds than mine, but the gist being that to obtain or renew a tenancy, the tenant (or prospect) must buy one share in the company that owns the property. In doing that, the RTA is excluded from the tenancy.

                          There will be a cost in registering a company, plus transferring rental properties to it, etc., but the only person that's going to be annoyed by such a move will be Dhil Twitford. Of course, the big risk is that he might try and railroad an RTA change through parliament that rescinds section 5 (1)[r]

                          But the good part is that the right people are being pissed off, rather than good tenants.

                          Perhaps make use of the discrimination provisions in the Bill of Rights / Human Rights Act. Why should home owners be discriminated against regarding insulation and heating equipment?

                          Application to the HRC would get LLs away from the horrible bias of the TT Kangaroo Kourts.

                          Originally posted by RTA
                          12A Choice of procedures
                          (1) Where the circumstances are such that any person would be entitled to make an application to the Tribunal and also a complaint under the Human Rights Act 1993, that person may take one, but not both, of the following steps:
                          (a) the person may invoke, in relation to those circumstances, the procedures under this Act:
                          (b)the person may make, in relation to those circumstances, a complaint under the Human Rights Act 1993.
                          (2) For the purposes of subsection (1)(b), a person makes a complaint when proceedings in relation to that complaint are commenced by the complainant or the Commission.
                          Similar risks apply in that the HRC could decline to hear the application, Dhil Twitford could do something in parliament, etc.

                          LLs also need a champion. There is a parliamentary register on MPs interests, here. I don't imagine much support could be expected from Dhil's socialist mates, so National MPs (and perhaps Winston First MPs) are likely to contain potential allies. Allies who can ask difficult questions in parliament.

                          Right at the top of that Register list is:
                          Hon Amy Adams (National, Selwyn)
                          Real property
                          Residential property (owned by trust), Cromwell
                          Residential property (owned by trust), West Melton
                          Residential apartment (owned by trust), Wellington
                          Gerry Browlee: four Residential properties. Judith Collins, Jonathan Coleman, David Bennett, Andrew Bayley, Matt Doocey, Parmjeet Parmar, Tim Van de Molen and one or two others on the list who are likely to be adversely affected by Dhil's plans.
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                          • #14
                            If we adopt Section 5 (1) [r] and include a single share in the tenancy, the tenancy no longer falls under the Act so what laws/acts will it get covered by and who do we go if the brown stuff hits the whirly thing? It'll be too confusing for the already over worked local Bobby and the TT will just laugh at your application.

                            Someone would also need to write up a TA that covers all the bits you want to keep from the RTA.

                            I can see lots of benefits though. 10 weeks bond held in the company's offset mortgage account. Instant access when the need arises. Changing the locks on day 22 of missed rent. The possibilities are endless.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Perry View Post
                              But is there something else that could be done, that would not adversely affect our tenants?.
                              kinda like the idea floated for a teachers strike in the school holidays so as to be less of an inconvenience on working parents?

                              who pays any attention on industrial action that doesn’t cause an inconvenience?

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