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How many landlords own multiple properties

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  • How many landlords own multiple properties



    Data from OIA request. The limitation seems to be that it is taken from bond lodgement using landlord ID - i understand that property managers have one ID that they use for all their properties which would explain the large no. of 'landlords' with 55+ properties.

    What the information does show that more than 97% of landlords defined by no. of bond lodged have 5 or fewer properties.

    This group of LL's will be the most impacted by the changes to rules that make evicting poor tenants more difficult.
    Last edited by Perry; 04-10-2018, 08:51 AM.

  • #2
    The landlords with one rental property will be most impacted by ring-fencing rental losses, if that is introduced as seems probable. Any losses will accumulate and be carried forward, possibly for years, as they cannot offset those losses against a portfolio of properties. Then, if they sell up while still carrying losses, poof! Gone. Forfeited.

    I wonder if they realise the impact of this proposed policy. Probably not.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by artemis View Post
      The landlords with one rental property will be most impacted by ring-fencing rental losses, if that is introduced as seems probable. Any losses will accumulate and be carried forward, possibly for years, as they cannot offset those losses against a portfolio of properties. Then, if they sell up while still carrying losses, poof! Gone. Forfeited.

      I wonder if they realise the impact of this proposed policy. Probably not.
      Hopefully they made a profit at some stage along the way as that was the intent - wasn't it?
      Poor investment if it made a loss all the way - or maybe they wanted the tax free capital gain?

      Comment


      • #4
        How would HNZ be presented in these stats? I own one property that is leased to HNZ but I don't think that my house will be in there because I don't collect a bond and presumably HNZ doesn't either so all those properties are missing I presume... and there would be a lot of them?

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        • #5
          Would another potential statistical skew to using the word 'properties' occur when it's one property with several tenancies - such as a block of flats?

          The text refers to LL ID numbers. Why not property ID numbers? They have those.

          Also, I wonder how many 1-2 rental-LLs do not collect any bond and so are excluded from such stats?
          Want a great looking concrete swimming pool in Hawke's Bay? Designer Pools will do the job for you!

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          • #6
            Originally posted by ripeka View Post
            How would HNZ be presented in these stats? I own one property that is leased to HNZ but I don't think that my house will be in there because I don't collect a bond and presumably HNZ doesn't either so all those properties are missing I presume... and there would be a lot of them?
            Housing NZ does collect bonds. If you look at some of the Housing NZ cases on the Tenancy Tribunal database it is usual for damage or rent arrears to be recovered from the bond when the tenant vacates.

            Of course the bond amounts are trivial and the damage and rent arrears are usually not at all trivial.

            I assume the bonds are lodged with the Bond Centre as the RTA binds the Crown, but I don't know that for sure.

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            • #7
              I read about an investor from Tairua with 14 units selling up. $2-3K to insulate, $3-4K for heating is a lot x 14 at the best of times, but there are some markets where even with today's rent levels where it's not going to make sense for an investor. Rents will need to jump and that will happen as many sales go to home buyers and the pool of rentals shrinks very fast. Which makes hiring people more expensive and reduces the ability of smaller areas to compete on some footing with bigger markets.

              Put it on your crisis list, rentals in the regions. Wait, we already have a shortage. Extra crisis then. That's a prediction, feel free to point it out to me in 2 years time ;-)
              Free online Property Investment Course from iFindProperty, a residential investment property agency.

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              • #8
                Agree Nick G and as peak letting season approaches in at least Auckland and Wellington we will see many more pics of desperate tenants lined up outside open homes.

                About that time this year Grant Robertson called for and received a large number of letters from tenants complaining about, well everything really, but particularly high rents. Mr Robertson invited them to apply to the Tenancy Tribunal to try for a rent reduction. For months I kept an eye on the hundreds of decisions from these tenants' applications. Nope, did not see one.

                I see Tamati Coffey just held a meeting in Rotorua to gather experiences on rentals. Do we think he was expecting tenants complaining about cold, damp and mouldy etc? In fact he got a huge amount of flak from landlords about tenants.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Nick G View Post
                  . . .and that will happen as many sales go to home buyers
                  That seems to be contrary to the experiences of some on here.
                  Their wannabe ex-tenant new owners can't get mortgage finance.

                  Originally posted by Nick G View Post
                  That's a prediction, feel free to point it out to me in 2 years time.
                  Sorry, no. All predictions have to face a 12-months-later test, first.
                  Want a great looking concrete swimming pool in Hawke's Bay? Designer Pools will do the job for you!

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Perry View Post
                    That seems to be contrary to the experiences of some on here.
                    Their wannabe ex-tenant new owners can't get mortgage finance.
                    It won't be ex-tenant or at least not same who lived in the property. I'm selling 3 houses and offered my tenants to buy them - none were able to secure the finance

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                    • #11
                      In Auckland, (again), there seems to be a lot of new people coming from the regions and overseas again who are buying, so not existing tenants. 2 of ours were to imports.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Nick G View Post
                        I read about an investor from Tairua with 14 units selling up. $2-3K to insulate, $3-4K for heating is a lot x 14 at the best of times, but there are some markets where even with today's rent levels where it's not going to make sense for an investor. Rents will need to jump and that will happen as many sales go to home buyers and the pool of rentals shrinks very fast. Which makes hiring people more expensive and reduces the ability of smaller areas to compete on some footing with bigger markets.

                        Put it on your crisis list, rentals in the regions. Wait, we already have a shortage. Extra crisis then. That's a prediction, feel free to point it out to me in 2 years time ;-)
                        Of course the guy with 14 x rentals in Tairua (where ever the hell that is) could have had a plan in place to upgrade the rentals over time and increase their value- it's not like the insulation legislation/changes hasn't been in the pipeline for, oh lets see 4-5 years! Instead he chose not to do anything but was no doubt happy to collect rents and not worry too much about the homes his tenants were living in.

                        It will be good to see this legislation does kick a few slumlords to touch. The guy has plenty of options - he could sell 1 or 2 and upgrade the rest or sell them all. I guess being a slumlord isn't as glamorous as it once.

                        Craig

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Courham View Post
                          Of course the guy with 14 x rentals in Tairua (where ever the hell that is) could have had a plan in place to upgrade the rentals over time and increase their value- it's not like the insulation legislation/changes hasn't been in the pipeline for, oh lets see 4-5 years! Instead he chose not to do anything but was no doubt happy to collect rents and not worry too much about the homes his tenants were living in.

                          It will be good to see this legislation does kick a few slumlords to touch. The guy has plenty of options - he could sell 1 or 2 and upgrade the rest or sell them all. I guess being a slumlord isn't as glamorous as it once.

                          Craig
                          Also they appear to be terrible at sourcing insulation and heating installation quotes if they are paying those costs for each unit. They are twice the prices you would expect for the base insulation and heating requirements - and thats without getting a discount for a 14 unit job.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by artemis View Post

                            I see Tamati Coffey just held a meeting in Rotorua to gather experiences on rentals. Do we think he was expecting tenants complaining about cold, damp and mouldy etc? In fact he got a huge amount of flak from landlords about tenants.
                            I was there. Very small turnout and almost all LL and PMs. Tamati got educated about some of the realities of the current rental situation.
                            My blog. From personal experience.
                            http://statehousinginnz.wordpress.com/

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Courham View Post
                              Of course the guy with 14 x rentals in Tairua (where ever the hell that is) could have had a plan in place to upgrade the rentals over time and increase their value- it's not like the insulation legislation/changes hasn't been in the pipeline for, oh lets see 4-5 years! Instead he chose not to do anything but was no doubt happy to collect rents and not worry too much about the homes his tenants were living in.

                              It will be good to see this legislation does kick a few slumlords to touch. The guy has plenty of options - he could sell 1 or 2 and upgrade the rest or sell them all. I guess being a slumlord isn't as glamorous as it once.

                              Craig
                              Judgemental, much?
                              Regional units such as his earn $100-150 pw. Upgrading will do almost nothing to values. He looked to be at or over retirement age, probably using his rents to augment his pension. Spending up to $7K on each would be totally uneconomic for him. As would selling one or two to upgrade the rest - it's doubtful that he would see any cashflow, which at his stage of life is what it's all about. He doesn't have the time to sit back and wait for rents to catch up to the outlay. I totally understand how he would see selling as his only option.

                              And you have NO information about the condition of his properties or how comfortable they are to live in. (In fact, they loked tidy enough, in the photo.) You are making a HUGE and very possibly unwarranted assumption that they were slums, based on what evidence? That they are uninsulated and don't have a heatpump? Newsflash: there are thousands of very comfortable homes out there that are uninsulated and don't have a heatpump! I've lived in several myself. You have a very flawed idea of what makes for a slum. By your definition, most of the houses in the country are slums.
                              My blog. From personal experience.
                              http://statehousinginnz.wordpress.com/

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