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WARNING - Do not support refugee program placements

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  • WARNING - Do not support refugee program placements

    We recently fully renovated a 4 bedroom unit, new carpet, ceiling insulation (no underfloor access), heat pumps upgraded bathroom and new carpet through out. We advertised as we normally would with huge demand and many potentially good tenants. One of those that applied was a new refugee family with full support from the Red Cross and the department of immigration documenting they had been through their official integration programs to set them up for living in NZ.

    We decided to support the refugee placement efforts as our attempt to ‘help’

    Six weeks later my PM visited the property to find that they had pretty much destroyed the place. Our first call was to the Red Cross they simply shrugged their shoulders saying they were only a support service, the govt document not worth the paper it was written on

    The support services will run for cover and you as the landlord will be left carrying all the risk.
    Last edited by Don't believe the Hype; 03-08-2018, 09:56 PM.

  • #2
    Such a shame that you do the "Right Thing" & this is how you / we are treated.
    Much the same with some of the undesirables that WINZ throws out of public housing and expects private landlords to house them.

    As usual the socialists say we will take these people in but "YOU" are going to pay for them and deal with them. The immigrants get a quick briefing then some Govt dept ticks a box & says their job is done.

    I'm picking there will many more difficulties in housing the difficult ones & one day the Govt is going to have to stump up & build more state housing or convince the do gooder agencies to take responsibility for them.

    The real sad part is that there are many good immigrants / refugees whose only desire is to make a better life in their new country, and just need a little education as to how things work and what they are expected to do.
    I know this because my place in Melbourne is in the middle of Refugee / immigrant central and I am surrounded by loads of genuine and hard working people, and no violence & crime like there is in areas containing multi generational Aussies who on the dole and expecting the world owes them everything.
    Food.Gems.ILS

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    • #3
      Thanks for the thread. As supply tightens happy to refer to it next time approached by those organisations about giving consideration to such groups.

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      • #4
        So what have you been able to do about this DBH?

        And why did they do it? Was it intentional? Or they just don't know how to live in a NZ house?
        Squadly dinky do!

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        • #5
          Davo36 - nothing at the moment. I’m overseas so my PM and insurance are handling. Will report back when I have more info.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Davo36 View Post
            So what have you been able to do about this DBH?

            And why did they do it? Was it intentional? Or they just don't know how to live in a NZ house?
            Don't need to guess - it was innocent accident

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            • #7
              Crap, sorry to hear that. Very disappointing.
              Free online Property Investment Course from iFindProperty, a residential investment property agency.

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              • #8
                Thanks Nick but we manage our business for these sorts of risks. We have insurance that should cover the costs, but you’re right, very disappointing. We will be out of pocket but we’ll scrape by. Maybe I should set up a give a little page for a poor landlord who’s place got damaged. You think there would be public support? 😂

                We produced a product that was high spec for the area we invest in and these people have no respect for the property. What’s worse is when we saw the tenants move in they had new fridge, new washing machine new kitchen appliances - pretty much new everything that the Red Cross had sourced for them. They were set up better than many of the hard working locals that we rent other properties to. There is simply no excuse for this behavior

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                • #9
                  DBTH, did you make the Red Cross aware of this?

                  And where have these people gone? Can you publicise their names etc. so other landlords don't get caught out?
                  Squadly dinky do!

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                  • #10
                    Unfortunately the reality is that refugees often come from places with very different attitudes/experiences towards property than the NZ norms. Where I am living (Kiribati) most people don't have access to running water or a toilet- going to the toilet in the ocean or lagoon is how many people do it. Indoor plumbing for water? Forget about it. You've a well. Most people live in dirt floored shacks.

                    We run a hospitality course, training local girls to be able to be cleaning staff/hospitality workers at resorts in Australia. The head of the PTE was returning from overseas so the tutor took the class of girls (20+ of them) to clean his house for him- a good learning experience. It was the first time ever that many of them had been in Western style accommodation (i.e a typical western house as you would know it)!

                    One of my workmates told me a story of some of the locals who went on one of those short term migrant workers programmes to NZ and lit a fire in the oven at their accommodation. None of them had ever used an electric oven, out here you light a fire to cook on- people don't have ovens as western houses do so it was an alien concept to them.

                    So, I'm sorry your house was trashed and it has been a learning curve for you. However, the organisations working with the migrants should be teaching them about how to live in NZ houses and the many, many things we take for granted or think are common practice.

                    Craig

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Davo36 View Post
                      DBTH, did you make the Red Cross aware of this?

                      And where have these people gone? Can you publicise their names etc. so other landlords don't get caught out?
                      The Red Cross notified my PM so they’re well aware. They called him then when pushed claimed they were simply a support agency so had no liability.

                      As I look into this further, There was a blocked toilet caused by foreign objects having been put down the toilet which snagged in the pipe where the PVC joined the terracotta pipe. This then got compounded by non degrading material - looks like cut up t-shirts which I guess were being used as toilet paper which created a full blockage.

                      I don’t think there was intent to damage rather more along the lines of Chourham’s observations, these people don’t know how to use western houses and don’t have any regard for nice things having never lived in anything but squalor. When the toilet overflowed they simply got on with scooping out crap �� and carting it to the bath to dispose of - no thought of calling the PM or their support agency. The bath waste heads to the same place as the toilet so guess what... now we have sewage leaking into the lower level ceiling cavity and walked through the house new carpet etc.

                      as for training on how to live in NZ we were assured by the immigration department that these folk had been through a full onboarding on how to live in NZ - certified in writing - ahhh big fail there.

                      Should we name them... probably not, my beef is not the tenants - I just don’t think they know how to live in a normal house.

                      Helping other LL avoid the same issue - that is what this post is about. I’m pissed that the govt department and the Red Cross have taken no responsibility for this. They effectively leave the risk with the private landlord trying to support their project. Based on that my advice is to NOT support this program. Let them House them in state houses and then the RC or the Social Housing Providers will have to carry the risk.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Don't believe the Hype View Post
                        The Red Cross notified my PM so they’re well aware. They called him then when pushed claimed they were simply a support agency so had no liability.

                        As I look into this further, There was a blocked toilet caused by foreign objects having been put down the toilet which snagged in the pipe where the PVC joined the terracotta pipe. This then got compounded by non degrading material - looks like cut up t-shirts which I guess were being used as toilet paper which created a full blockage.

                        [snip]

                        Helping other LL avoid the same issue - that is what this post is about. I’m pissed that the govt department and the Red Cross have taken no responsibility for this. They effectively leave the risk with the private landlord trying to support their project. Based on that my advice is to NOT support this program. Let them House them in state houses and then the RC or the Social Housing Providers will have to carry the risk.
                        Have you ever had the gov't take responsibility for anything? We bring in refugees (which I agree with BTW) and they're entitled to a total of 6 weeks English language provision and are supposed to be able to function in an English speaking society after that...yeah right! You trying learning enough of a language to get by in 6 weeks. Not only that but they have been potetnally living in a refugee camp with minimal facilities for years!

                        NGOs aren't going to open themselves up to potentiality expensive repair bills by guaranteeing behaviour of refugee/migrant tenants, its just not going to happen unfortunately. So, I guess only answer is for housing NZ to take care of housing them and we all pay! But HNZ can't house the NZ poor let alone migrats/refugees.

                        As for the stuff down the toilet. The ripped up t shirts does sound like using them for toilet paper. We had a similar problem here where I work the other day with one of the new students from the outer islands (way, way out in the middle of the Pacific) blocking up one of the toilets in the dormitories by putting something down it that shouldn't have been (a harpic toilet cleaner bottle) simply through ignorance and not realising only toilet paper gets flushed.

                        A few weeks back we had an issue with some of the new students peeing in the stair wells (they board on site 24/7) again as they weren't used to using toilet facilities. Our tutors spend a lot of time getting the accustomed to living on site but even so we still have the odd issue to deal with.

                        Craig

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                        • #13
                          Home providers are not a charity.
                          Wouldn't be paying so much tax if we were.
                          If the tenant doesn't pass all the tests - send them on.
                          Better to leave a house empty than get a bad tenant.
                          Wouldn't be the case if the tenancy laws were more sensible & balanced - but unfortunately that's the B.S. we have to work around to survive.
                          The three most harmful addictions are heroin, carbohydrates and a monthly salary - Fred Wilson.

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                          • #14
                            I have had several WINZ mental health clients with 'slight disabilities' in the past. All came with caregivers and water tight assurances everything would be fine. All through my professional PM keeping an eye on things.

                            The water tight assurances from WINZ and the care givers were similar to filling an onion bag with water! The tenants attracted every other homeless criminal possible to the property with the eventual outcome of myself terminating the tenancy and having to clean up the trashed filthy property afterward. I found the caregivers were hamstrung, I mean how are they meant to keep an eye on these people 100% of the time, other than moving in with them!
                            I have heard stories about the refugees, and understand other countries who imported lots of them are having nightmares dealing with the rise in street gangs and crime.
                            Sorry to all bleeding hearts but My advice is; DONT GO THERE! no matter what guarantees they give you.

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                            • #15
                              Sounds like you have been up a certain creek lately. Flushable wipes look like cut t-shirts when pulled out.
                              https://www.dropbox.com/s/7qnj6f5eb9...8502b.jpg?dl=0

                              I added this to my template recently after I had a contractor spend six hours clearing a blockage caused by flushable wipes.

                              "The tenants will not flush any sanitary products or flushable wipes down the toilet. Only toilet paper is permitted to be disposed of down the toilet.
                              ... Property Management Limited will apply to the Tenancy Tribunal for any costs associated with clearing any blockage caused by items other than toilet paper."

                              In our case sewerage discharge flowed from the gully trap out onto the drive so I am surprised this didn't happen in your case as well if the blockage was somewhere on the way from the house to the main sewer. From what I have seen it seems fairly common for such blockages to occur when old pipes are connected to PVC with a Fernco coupling and anything other than toilet paper is regularly flushed down. Flushable wipes are definitely not flushable despite the advertising claims and cause havoc in pipes and at the treatment plant. Also many modern toilets flush less water down which doesn't help.

                              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatberg




                              Last edited by Lighthouse; 24-08-2018, 01:39 AM.

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