I am Nervous, No I am Scared

[Nick G]

Yup, the banks are less likely to lend to you than they were before. Have a balloon.

[Davo36]

I can see no benefit whatsoever in allowing overseas people to speculate in our housing market.

I'd imagine in virtually every case, they came, they bought, they waited, they sold, they took the gains home and paid not a jot of tax here.

And contributed to price increases.

I'd very much like to hear how this helped NZ.

[Murph]

I can see no benefit whatsoever in allowing overseas people to speculate in our housing market.

I'd imagine in virtually every case, they came, they bought, they waited, they sold, they took the gains home and paid not a jot of tax here.

And contributed to price increases.

I'd very much like to hear how this helped NZ.

Ok let me give an example from Queenstown and with regard to say AirBnb.

Overseas investor buys a house to use as a holiday home for friends and family and rents it out via Airbnb to cover costs and generate a return on investment.

Owners may or may not employ tradesmen for an initial refurb but its usually the case.

Owner offers it for rental to guests who come in to stay and spend money in the local economy for restaurants, activities, flights etc etc.

Owner employs cleaners, electricians, plumbers, handyman, property managers etc etc to keep it in good shape for guests.

Those above spend the money in the local economy etc etc.

Would the above help NZ?

[portofolio]

I know a few cases " the overseas investors" , actually they are the parents of some international students who are studying in NZ. The rich parents try to provide a 3-5 years accommodation for their children in NZ when they made the purchase of the house. When their children complete their study, their parents will put the property on the market for sale. If their children found jobs in NZ, then the house will be kept or transferred ownership to their children. The ownership is under the parents name in order to access the loan from the bank. So most of them are treated as overseas speculation perhaps.

The pure speculation may not happen in NZ for most of overseas Chinese buyers. Actually who will buy in NZ for a 15%-20% annual return with huge uncertainty in foreign currency and policy, those speculators buy in Shanghai, Beijing, Shenzhen where rewards above 20% annual returns without foreign currency risk.

[Bob Kane]

I can see no benefit whatsoever in allowing overseas people to speculate in our housing market.

I'd imagine in virtually every case, they came, they bought, they waited, they sold, they took the gains home and paid not a jot of tax here.

And contributed to price increases.

I'd very much like to hear how this helped NZ.

The overseas buyer pays an inflated price to a NZer - win for NZ.
After holding for a while the overseas buyer sells to another overseas buyer - neutral for NZ
2 year bright-line test ensures tax is paid - win for NZ.
What has NZ lost?

[PTWhatAGreatForum]

I can see no benefit whatsoever in allowing overseas people to speculate in our housing market.
[.....]
I'd very much like to hear how this helped NZ.

Here in the Philippines, land ownership is restricted to citizens. The only exception I am aware of is via inheritance from a deceased spouse.

The world has not ended here on account of this.

[Nick G]

They could probably use some foreign capital invested to be fair.

[WINZ]

The overseas buyer pays an inflated price to a NZer - win for NZ.
After holding for a while the overseas buyer sells to another overseas buyer - neutral for NZ
2 year bright-line test ensures tax is paid - win for NZ.
What has NZ lost?

That is poor logic given that there's a finite supply of housing so effectively its a zero-sum game in terms of the local population.

If a foreign speculator pays over the odds for an NZ property, then sure this is a win for the INDIVIDUAL who sold it, however this additional demand pushes up prices to the detriment of the wider local population.

Housing, while is essential, is effectively an unproductive investment. If locals are paying over the odds for housing, then this is consuming a greater proportion of their savings (and/or borrowing potential) which could be utilised for other purchases/investments, which would be more beneficial to the real economy.


The only win/win (for NZ) would be if foreign speculators paid excessive amounts for local properties, the market corrected and then they sold at a lower price, however this would lead to significant collateral damage and its questionable if a country should be promoting this as their housing/economic strategy.

[Aston]

Ok let me give an example from Queenstown and with regard to say AirBnb.

Overseas investor buys a house to use as a holiday home for friends and family and rents it out via Airbnb to cover costs and generate a return on investment.

Owners may or may not employ tradesmen for an initial refurb but its usually the case.

Owner offers it for rental to guests who come in to stay and spend money in the local economy for restaurants, activities, flights etc etc.

Owner employs cleaners, electricians, plumbers, handyman, property managers etc etc to keep it in good shape for guests.

Those above spend the money in the local economy etc etc.

Would the above help NZ?

The outcome of the above example would be the same regardless of whether the property was owned by an overseas investor or a local investor.

I totally support what Jacinda Ardern has done with regard to overseas investors. She has done, in one week, what the National Government said was impossible. Unfortunately though there are now tens of thousands of our houses in the hands of these overseas buyers. Over the past few years these investors have been partially responsible for pushing our houses beyond the reach of many New Zealanders. Why should New Zealanders have to compete with overseas investors, with very deep pockets, to buy our own houses? I am certainly a lot more comfortable in the knowledge that there will now be a lot less of our houses being sold to overseas investors.

One question I still have though… Does buying a property, house or apartment, off the plans constitute a new build?

[Beginner1]

Not nervous nor Scared..
Look at the oppotunities a recession, massive downturn would bring IN. Personally, I have factored in 20%-30% drop in property price drop in Auckland and 10-15% everywhere else. Sharemarket 20-30%. This would stop lot of new builds, which will eventually lead into increase in Rents. This will also presents in good buys with fundamentals correct. My kiwisaver is on cash only now.. Lock in the gains and ride the lows..
Time will tell whether my gamble will pay off.. Love the oppotunities which uncertainity brings..

[andyp2010]

That is poor logic given that there's a finite supply of housing so effectively its a zero-sum game in terms of the local population.

If a foreign speculator pays over the odds for an NZ property, then sure this is a win for the INDIVIDUAL who sold it, however this additional demand pushes up prices to the detriment of the wider local population.

Housing, while is essential, is effectively an unproductive investment. If locals are paying over the odds for housing, then this is consuming a greater proportion of their savings (and/or borrowing potential) which could be utilised for other purchases/investments, which would be more beneficial to the real economy.


The only win/win (for NZ) would be if foreign speculators paid excessive amounts for local properties, the market corrected and then they sold at a lower price, however this would lead to significant collateral damage and its questionable if a country should be promoting this as their housing/economic strategy.

Because you're not seeing the other side. Where a kiwi can go to a host of foreign countries and buy property and do the same as this example. Other countries may retaliate if we shut their buyers out.

[Bluekiwi]

Yep always need to have a Plan B, C and D.

I am already working on my exit plan from property in NZ as the haters group is growing and gaining momentum.

Did you know you can buy cheap houses in the US, and Memphis as an example, good small houses can cost between 30k and 50k
In average to bad area's and have yields around 20%.

But you can buy mansions, well beautiful houses like this one for close on 200k US, so about 300k NZ.
That yield you 10%, rent is about $1,750US per month on this one, so not a perfect example, but lovely homes in perfect condition like this one in good safe area's like Bartlett / Cordova.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1614-Wayside-Cv-Cordova-TN-38016/42327882_zpid/?utm_source=email&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=emo-propalert-image&rtoken=93d64de6-21b8-431b-8a72-d3e047ddda49~X1-ZU11xprzk137pqh_5dugv

I have the option of going through the pain of council and building in Auckland to put a 4 bedroom home on an existing piece of land that I own.
I have building consent and it will cost me about $350,000 and lot of anguish and red tape I don't really feel like doing.

I could buy 7 rental houses in an average part of Memphis for 30kUS each.
$350,000 NZ.
And have a fun time doing a bit of travel at the same time.

I am in a lucky position having leased my properties at a great return to a social housing provider.
And fixed my rates out quite far, so I am a lucky investor.
But like Ross I am very worried about the property investor hate out their.

Extending the bright line test and ending negative gearing don't worry my trading and rental business.
But this is right off the bat so looks like the tax working group they set up, and they do set it up to achieve a desired result, has eyes on a greater prize.
Their is now a possibility that could derail both my rental business and my trading business.
Stamp duty could eliminate trading and land tax could ruin my return on rentals.

Their is a definite mood for the current govt to redistribute the hard earned assets of the asset holders to the population that don't own assets.
In the form of massive spending and social assistance.
Even though the 20% high income earners already pay 80% of the tax, and the land and property owners already pay capital gains tax (RATES and Insurance) that pay for a lot of social infrastructure (Like Roads and Parks) that the non asset owners use every day of their lives.

Instead of building more rentals on existing sites and property trading here in NZ, where I do employ a lot of trades I might add.
I am thinking of moving that funding to 10% returning property in the US.
I have to complete a minor subdivision creating a few sections for people to build on (so much red tape and high costs and problems finding people to do the work) but after that, I just don't see it working here in NZ.

Will look to buy US houses instead of building here in short term and closely watch the tax working group.
If it becomes too hard, then rather than keep my rentals I may sell up and buy 5m US Property instead.
That Houston (off coast) - Memphis eastern suburbs - Nashville area is environmentally safe from Tornado's / Sea and River flooding / snow damage and the maintenance problems associated with high rainfall and humidity.

[Beginner1]

Is it easy for kiws to buy in US? No limits extra fees for non US citizens? We are going on holiday to US next year. Buying a house would make it interesting..

Yep always need to have a Plan B, C and D.

I am already working on my exit plan from property in NZ as the haters group is growing and gaining momentum.

Did you know you can buy cheap houses in the US, and Memphis as an example, good small houses can cost between 30k and 50k
In average to bad area's and have yields around 20%.

But you can buy mansions, well beautiful houses like this one for close on 200k US, so about 300k NZ.
That yield you 10%, rent is about $1,750US per month on this one, so not a perfect example, but lovely homes in perfect condition like this one in good safe area's like Bartlett / Cordova.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1614-Wayside-Cv-Cordova-TN-38016/42327882_zpid/?utm_source=email&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=emo-propalert-image&rtoken=93d64de6-21b8-431b-8a72-d3e047ddda49~X1-ZU11xprzk137pqh_5dugv

I have the option of going through the pain of council and building in Auckland to put a 4 bedroom home on an existing piece of land that I own.
I have building consent and it will cost me about $350,000 and lot of anguish and red tape I don't really feel like doing.

I could buy 7 rental houses in an average part of Memphis for 30kUS each.
$350,000 NZ.
And have a fun time doing a bit of travel at the same time.

I am in a lucky position having leased my properties at a great return to a social housing provider.
And fixed my rates out quite far, so I am a lucky investor.
But like Ross I am very worried about the property investor hate out their.

Extending the bright line test and ending negative gearing don't worry my trading and rental business.
But this is right off the bat so looks like the tax working group they set up, and they do set it up to achieve a desired result, has eyes on a greater prize.
Their is now a possibility that could derail both my rental business and my trading business.
Stamp duty could eliminate trading and land tax could ruin my return on rentals.

Their is a definite mood for the current govt to redistribute the hard earned assets of the asset holders to the population that don't own assets.
In the form of massive spending and social assistance.
Even though the 20% high income earners already pay 80% of the tax, and the land and property owners already pay capital gains tax (RATES and Insurance) that pay for a lot of social infrastructure (Like Roads and Parks) that the non asset owners use every day of their lives.

Instead of building more rentals on existing sites and property trading here in NZ, where I do employ a lot of trades I might add.
I am thinking of moving that funding to 10% returning property in the US.
I have to complete a minor subdivision creating a few sections for people to build on (so much red tape and high costs and problems finding people to do the work) but after that, I just don't see it working here in NZ.

Will look to buy US houses instead of building here in short term and closely watch the tax working group.
If it becomes too hard, then rather than keep my rentals I may sell up and buy 5m US Property instead.
That Houston (off coast) - Memphis eastern suburbs - Nashville area is environmentally safe from Tornado's / Sea and River flooding / snow damage and the maintenance problems associated with high rainfall and humidity.

[Bluekiwi]

Is it easy for kiws to buy in US? No limits extra fees for non US citizens? We are going on holiday to US next year. Buying a house would make it interesting..

Buy whatever you want, guns and houses, probably even Mexican slaves, but get your property accountant on board and do your due diligence before you go to get good advice.
Their are traps for the unwary.

I found a good website by googling, that told me the area's of Memphis that specific gangs control
Website that detailed specific streets and area's not to buy in.
Then you need structure advice, a US credit card, a safe property manager.

No nope, probably not something you want to randomly do while on holiday

[WINZ]

Because you're not seeing the other side. Where a kiwi can go to a host of foreign countries and buy property and do the same as this example. Other countries may retaliate if we shut their buyers out.

1. Which countries are you referring to specifically?
2. We're so small they'd hardly care.
3. We're not the only country with this in place, look at Indonesia, Phillipinnes etc.
4. Said countries have this ban but aren't banned from various other markets.