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  • #31
    Originally posted by elguapo View Post
    I do wonder if you have the same definition of cash flow positive that I do. 100% finance and all costs covered by the income. They just do not exist outside distressed markets.
    Not true elguapo. I've done heaps of them on 100% finance and also all on 20 year P & I mortgages and still cashflow positive. Not as easy as it was now with higher prices, but still possible.
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    • #32
      Originally posted by fuzzlevalve View Post
      Oh this guy quite funny



      Most investors I know long term people. Flippers are no investors. And he guess 65%. 90% of investors I know are cash positive. Somebody say he accountant????? Would scare me if he my accountant.
      Fuzzyvalve, you do realise that Donna now has the ability to track who you actually are don't you?
      You don't fool anybody and I would think very soon be removed again!
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      • #33
        I think the guys finding cashflow positive properties have this in common:

        It's out of Auckland e.g. Hawkes Bay, Wellington.

        In addition Beano, I think you're probably doing quite different deals to most people e.g. larger commercial/industrial and land that is leased.
        Squadly dinky do!

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        • #34
          I think the guys finding cashflow positive properties are looking for them.
          Free online Property Investment Course from iFindProperty, a residential investment property agency.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by orion View Post
            Fuzzyvalve, you do realise that Donna now has the ability to track who you actually are don't you?
            You don't fool anybody and I would think very soon be removed again!
            Is this another version of Dean?

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            • #36
              we've a few minorly disturbed guests

              it's like whack-a-mole

              https://i.imgur.com/moo0BtB.mp4
              Last edited by eri; 29-10-2017, 06:01 PM.
              have you defeated them?
              your demons

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              • #37
                Thought I'd explain why I think 65% of property investors have negative cashflow. From the figures I last found, there were 130,000 property investors approximately . Of these 104,000 approx had 1 property. 23,000 had 2-5 properties. So only 3,000 or 2.3% of property investors had 6 or more properties.

                The investors with 6 or more properties, are likely to be experience property investors, who have cashflow positive portfolio's. But this is only 2.3% of property investors!

                Some of the investors with 2-5 properties will be positive and some will be negative. From my experience, there is still a large number of these investors will have negative cashflow. That is from talking to a lot of property investors through accounting as well as through property investor groups, and seeing a lot of posts on forums too!

                But really its the property investors with 1 property that worries me. Often these are accidental landlords, or investors who have kept their personal home as a rental when they upgraded. Many are on interest only. Many have no strategy, no experience and no real knowledge. Some have been sold into negative properties by the various developers and advisors that recommend this. Many of these landlords also charge below market rent, because they don't want to lose the tenant. This group makes up 80% of property investors. From my experience, this group has not purchased well, and the majority are negative cashflow.

                So putting this information together, is how I estimate/guess that 65% of property investors would be negative.

                Ross
                Book a free chat here
                Ross Barnett - Property Accountant

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                • #38
                  If foreign buyers are forced to buy new - won't that inflate the sales price (I'm sure the developers are already planning their sales packs) and affect FHB's ability to purchase?

                  cheers,

                  Donna
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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by donna View Post
                    If foreign buyers are forced to buy new - won't that inflate the sales price (I'm sure the developers are already planning their sales packs) and affect FHB's ability to purchase?

                    cheers,

                    Donna
                    For a start how many FHB buy new?
                    Then are you expecting that foreign buyer will pay over the odds for a property - no matter what? Maybe they do just to get their money out.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by orion View Post
                      That would only be on interest only though right?
                      That's correct - I calculate whether investments are positive or not based on actual expense, not principal portion of loans. If I then decide to apply some of that positive cashflow to reducing principal, this is the same net effect as paying some down using my own income.

                      As I said I'm no genius buyer - I'm aware there are properties out there which pay themselves off all by themselves over 15-30 years, and I haven't got any of those. But I've got plenty that pay their own costs with a little profit. Then capital gain and intentional principal payments take care of the rest.

                      In the short term we have no idea what happens to prices; up/down/sideways - who knows. In the long (perhaps ultra-long...) term, property prices must eventually track inflation. But regardless, you know the prices will go up eventually, eating into the value of your debt while keeping your assets stable or growing.
                      AAT Accounting Services - Property Specialist - [email protected]
                      Fixed price fees and quick knowledgeable service for property investors & traders!

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Wayne View Post
                        For a start how many FHB buy new?
                        Then are you expecting that foreign buyer will pay over the odds for a property - no matter what? Maybe they do just to get their money out.
                        Isn't there a push to get FHB into new homes with grants etc?
                        SEARCH PropertyTalk, About PropertyTalk

                        BusinessBlogs - the best business articles are found here

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                        • #42
                          I think the government is going to have to beef up kiwi bank to make this work.
                          Free online Property Investment Course from iFindProperty, a residential investment property agency.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Nick G View Post
                            I think the government is going to have to beef up kiwi bank to make this work.
                            Do you mean by making sure the have the funds to lend? Because they seem to have funds to lend now to those who fit the criteria.

                            If the intention is to give FHBs more - or change the criteria - so inexperienced home owners can borrow large amounts from a bank then there is a major issue coming down the track.

                            And that is the extra work and hassle that comes from dealing with the problems that will arise. Mainly financial but also maintenance and neighbourly responsibility.

                            (I spent many years in the social housing sector, including a long time in credit control for social housing and government-provided mortgage finance. Many huge and sometimes intractable issues. Not jobs for the faint hearted.)

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                            • #44
                              Thought I'd explain why I think 65% of property investors have negative cashflow. From the figures I last found, there were 130,000 property investors approximately . Of these 104,000 approx had 1 property. 23,000 had 2-5 properties. So only 3,000 or 2.3% of property investors had 6 or more properties.

                              The investors with 6 or more properties, are likely to be experience property investors, who have cashflow positive portfolio's. But this is only 2.3% of property investors!

                              Some of the investors with 2-5 properties will be positive and some will be negative. From my experience, there is still a large number of these investors will have negative cashflow. That is from talking to a lot of property investors through accounting as well as through property investor groups, and seeing a lot of posts on forums too!

                              But really its the property investors with 1 property that worries me. Often these are accidental landlords, or investors who have kept their personal home as a rental when they upgraded. Many are on interest only. Many have no strategy, no experience and no real knowledge. Some have been sold into negative properties by the various developers and advisors that recommend this. Many of these landlords also charge below market rent, because they don't want to lose the tenant. This group makes up 80% of property investors. From my experience, this group has not purchased well, and the majority are negative cashflow.

                              So putting this information together, is how I estimate/guess that 65% of property investors would be negative.

                              Ross
                              Thanks Rosco, I understand now.

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                              • #45
                                I am in the Philippines at present and coming back in a month. Sounds like good news awaits.

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