Apartment buyers left in debt as Aussie banks 'pull plug'

[Nick G]

Many agents have a buyers list, but if they know the buyer will just flick it easily over and over then they should be working with the seller to get a higher price. That's assuming there is a market tho. During the GFC I bought houses at mortgagee or close to it and I was usually the only buyer. This is pre my being involved in an agency, these days I'd probably disclose something if I went back to trading.

The agency would know that a lot of sales were going to the same guy and quickly, after a while.

There was a guy on PT a long time ago called Terry who had a deal with a sales person in City Sales. The agent would sign up the gullible - this was in the days prices were normally put on apartments - telling them that their place was only worth $160k sorry. Then call Terry who'd buy it for that, then immediately flick it on for $20k to $50k profit. He did many of these and was eventually banned from buying any more from City Sales. Dunno if the sales person was ever censured.

So that is really a problem with one sales person as opposed to the agency itself. And might well happen in other agencies from time to time.

EDIT: Thinking about it some more, the BC rules are made by the developer right? So they must have had trouble with City Sales.

[eri]

City Sales sells 3 units at Bianco where body corp bans that agency

a result of developer Tim Manning’s animosity towards Mr Dunn for his approach to marketing cbd apartments during the market downturn. in 2008

http://www.propbd.co.nz/city-sales-sells-3-units-at-bianco-ae-where-body-corp-bans-that-agency/

more halfway down here

https://www.propertytalk.com/forum/showthread.php?20315-Auckland-apartments-questionable-agent-tactics/page7

[eri]

was that bianco?

something about someone

thinking city sales were predatory

when bluechip went titsup?

[Davo36]

The apartment I bought has an interesting term in it's BC rules, in the definitions section:

"Banned Company" means City Sales Limited (or any other real estate company which is operated by Martin Samuel Dunn)

Later, somewhere (is a scanned document so I can't do a search) it mentions something about not letting the Banned Company onto the premises.

I'd love to know if anyone knows why this would be? Does Martin have scandal in his past? Happy for it to be in a PM if it's too salacious to be posted on the general forum!

EDIT: Found it. Not as strict as I remember, just not allowed to appoint the Banned Company as a sales agent of any Unit

There was a guy on PT a long time ago called Terry who had a deal with a sales person in City Sales. The agent would sign up the gullible - this was in the days prices were normally put on apartments - telling them that their place was only worth $160k sorry. Then call Terry who'd buy it for that, then immediately flick it on for $20k to $50k profit. He did many of these and was eventually banned from buying any more from City Sales. Dunno if the sales person was ever censured.

So that is really a problem with one sales person as opposed to the agency itself. And might well happen in other agencies from time to time.

EDIT: Thinking about it some more, the BC rules are made by the developer right? So they must have had trouble with City Sales.

[Anthonyacat]

1) Martin Dunn (manager, City Sales) think it's getting very hard for developers to build apartments and the number under construction will get to basically 0, which means it's a good time to buy! Ever heard a real estate agent say it's a bad time to buy?

The apartment I bought has an interesting term in it's BC rules, in the definitions section:

"Banned Company" means City Sales Limited (or any other real estate company which is operated by Martin Samuel Dunn)

Later, somewhere (is a scanned document so I can't do a search) it mentions something about not letting the Banned Company onto the premises.

I'd love to know if anyone knows why this would be? Does Martin have scandal in his past? Happy for it to be in a PM if it's too salacious to be posted on the general forum!

EDIT: Found it. Not as strict as I remember, just not allowed to appoint the Banned Company as a sales agent of any Unit

[Davo36]

as they say

location, location, location

for $700k?

i'd be going metropolis, connaught, statesman, towerhill, pulman, precinct, hyatt quay west etc. in the already builts

and

queens residences, victoria residences, park residences etc. in the new or almost finished

Ok, thanks eri.

[Davo36]

Ok, so this is what I saw and found out today. Anyone who wants to buy these is welcome to, I don't think I'll buy them.

There are 2 units for sale by 2 different vendors. Both 1 bedroom plus study. 51.9 sqm + 5 sqm balcony. Level 9 and level 6. This is in stage 2, nearly complete.

Couldn't see in the units as the developers are still finishing them and won't let anyone through, especially for onseller's agents! Best the City Sales agent could show me is the showhome/apartment in stage 1.

The vendors probably paid $430k to $460k or so for them. One in 2013 and one in 2014. And they are asking around $500k. Contemporaneous settlement. Which would be 5 working days after CCC is issued. CCC has been applied for and they expect to get it very soon, like in a few days, so settlement will be very soon, maybe a week or so, so this makes things very tight, timing wise.

Good things:

1) Price seems OK. Things have gone up since 2013/2014, so don't really begrudge them making a little bit. They have to pay agent's fees of course too.
2) Finish/quality of apartments seems good.
3) Return likely to be around 5%. But see below re rates and BC fees.
4) Exterior of building is all concrete, so no cladding to leak, no cladding to catch fire.
5) Study in each apartment can be another bedroom.
6) Nice balcony.
7) Similar ones in stage 3 are selling for $719k more.


Bad things:

1) These units are south facing and there are low level buildings directly in front of them. The view is quite good just now, but could be totally lost in years to come.
2) Right now a Conrad building is going in on the Union St side and will block part of the view.
3) No air conditioning or heating in the units. Fresh air system only it seems.
4) No title to look at. Not sure what will be on the title such as caveats, encumbrances and various other things.
5) Don't know what rates are going to be as titles not issued, but have an idea from stage 1 units.
6) BC fees are also unknown, but again, can be estimated.
7) No car parks come with the units, and there are none for sale. They can apparently be leased. Call me old fashioned but I'd like a car park with each one.
Another 265 apartments coming available in stage 3. So if things take a downturn, this many coming on stream might be a problem.

Other comments:

1) Martin Dunn (manager, City Sales) think it's getting very hard for developers to build apartments and the number under construction will get to basically 0, which means it's a good time to buy! Ever heard a real estate agent say it's a bad time to buy?

So there you go!

[eri]

as they say

location, location, location

for $700k?

i'd be going metropolis, connaught, statesman, towerhill, pulman, precinct, hyatt quay west etc. in the already builts

and

queens residences, victoria residences, park residences etc. in the new or almost finished

[Davo36]

Thanks guys, I'm going to have a look at these tomorrow. So will report back when I know more.

[Nick G]

Price should be good, they're cheaper per sqm than other locations and you'll get 20% LVR if you settle with the developer. Quality good too. Will let Eri comment on comparible deals tho.

[eri]

it's a very big development over 3 large stages

quality looks good but the location isn't much

nothing but apartment buildings + motorways closely around

imho

better buys

in better places

[Davo36]

I contacted City Sales and they have told me about a couple of apartments where the buyers want to onsell. In the SugarTree development.

Are these any good? What is that development like? Positive, negatives?

[eri]

city sales

sending out another email

Unusual market conditions have left us with a multitude of apartments
which aren’t able to be publicly advertised, but are seriously for sale.

guessing more OTP buyers

wanting-needing

to cash out

[Davo36]

Hmmm, yep, they make them seem like a sure bet. And an easy, do no work bet. You know, it's all brand new, so no reno/maintenance as well as easily rented etc.

[donna]

It's probably why so many OTPs go to offshore buyers (particularly in Aussie) where they're getting their funding offshore. Many years ago we bought an OTP and it too valued up less than it's expected valuation so we had to cough up an extra $15K at settlement (we were lucky we had one unit there were quite a few others who had bought 3 or more and they were being stung on late settlements etc). Plus the rental appraisal was way off so the deal was negative for years. The marketing is so slick and it's easy to get sucked into these deals esp. for Kiwis who are too trusting - I guess it's still the same now.

cheers,

Donna