What Is Property Investment?

[Badger]

Not really sure what you are saying there Badger, so do you think all those people will live on the streets and not rent?

From personal experience when coin gets short other things you used to do you dont do, this is a ripple effect, get enough indivduals in a bind and it could become a wave. Where it all goes I can only guesstimate as other investors do, crime tends to rise....

Yes, I cannot see why it would not work in all markets, including the last 100 years.

The practice has been in operation for eons in Europe. Landlord was a profession, the rental culture has always been apart of Europe pshycology from King, Baron, Lord...but they did tend own what they owned out right or by decree not leveraged on credit....

The Culture in NZ is ownership thats a different basket imo.

Actually I did pass School C English, it was UE English that I didn't pass.

I was long gone and working for one of those old school land lords doing the donkey work on vacated renters....

There is nothing wrong with that at all. What I want to make clear though is that naturally everyone is entitled to their opinion, but without actually what I call 'being on the court' all the theory stuff is all good in theory, but sometimes that's it. What I mean by 'being on the court' is like in a tennis match. You can watch in on TV, even watch it live, you can read all the books about it, talk to people that play and then think you know the game extremely well, and would be an excellent player, but until you actually get 'on the court' and start playing the game, there is very little substance of actually knowing what it's like to 'play the game'. In no way am I getting at you Badger (and GreenFish if he/she isn't actually joking in the other post, & last week CommD), but in my experience being here on PT, often people will post a whole lot of information, and say 'do this, do that', etc, etc as if they have done it successfully themselves many times, but when it comes down to it, they have done very little actual investing.
If I was a new investor looking at all the posts and not knowing one person's credibility from another, I would find it extremely confusing knowing who or what to believe, if anything.

Regards
Graeme Fowler

Didnt think you were getting at me. I like challenging opinions and others assumptions since it challenges my own, .

Ive played the *game* ! Done ok out of it too! Now I play the other games on offer as well

As far as what others are seeking here at PT Id suggest they do due dillagence in regards to investing in anything, that means be prepared to do independant research and lots of it...

I read many things and all things and make my own mind up as to what is what in regards where im parking money or actively trading capital, my portfolio is not a million dollars, but its large enough to produce a modest income comparable to if not better than the illusion of a job or self employment, from investments and active trading over a nine year period, and yep Ive experienced many set backs and errors...

Errors only become mistakes if you fail to do anything about them....

[McDuck]

I'm going to think outside the square on this one.

I really dont get conflicting infromation about property on this site.

So all other clarifications (re credibility) are not needed.

Also people can quickly see a mismatched idea amongst the general tide of opinion.

In summation:

All the big practical ideas are agreed upon by all posters.

Most of the abstract theoretical concepts in contention are of no use to beginners anyway.

In super summation:

What problem?

[orion]

I agree with you Graeme however I would also point out that one of NZ's greatest coaches never played sevens.

Yes, I agree to a point Terry. However a coach does a lot more than just tell you how and where to run. It is also about belief in yourself, the will to win, training you to be in top health and phsyically fit, a positive mental attitude when it looks as if you are going to lose - not to give up, and probably the most important, teamwork.

I would also add that just because your on the court doesn't mean you actually know what you are doing.

Absolutely, but you are learning from experience, just like with anything. I had no idea what I was doing when I started, and learnt far more from doing it than what I had previously read in a book. It's similar to learning to ride a bike, you can read all about, talk to people that can ride bikes, but until you actually get on and try to ride for yourself, you won't really know how to do it, or what it's like. Very hard if not impossible to teach someone how to balance by telling them.

I know of plenty of Financial Planners in NZ that play on that court and don't know a thing.

Do you mean they invest themselves? I can totally believe that, but I don't think the whole profession really teaches you how to be really wealthy though.

I do like the idea though and it is a great one. Oh yes and just because someone is good at a particular sport does not mean they are a good coach, I was a great tournament fighter but sucked when it came time to teach.

Yes, very true.

Regards
Graeme Fowler

[orion]

I read many things and all things and make my own mind up as to what is what in regards where im parking money or actively trading capital, my portfolio is not a million dollars, but its large enough to produce a modest income comparable to if not better than the illusion of a job or self employment, from investments and active trading over a nine year period, and yep Ive experienced many set backs and errors...

Well done Badger, yes I think most of us have experienced setbacks!

Regards
Graeme Fowler

[orion]

I'm going to think outside the square on this one.
I really dont get conflicting infromation about property on this site.

Hi McDuck, really?? So you think everyone agrees with everyone else on every topic?

So all other clarifications (re credibility) are not needed.

I don't agree with that, anyway it's just a voluntary thing. If you wish to use it, that is fine. If not, that is fine too.

Also people can quickly see a mismatched idea amongst the general tide of opinion.

Well, I don't think that is correct. Sometimes the mis-matched ideas against the general tide of opinion might be more true than what the majority are saying. Everyone used to think the earth was flat. The person that discovered it was round had a mis-matched idea to everyone else, but it didn't mean he was wrong.

In summation:
All the big practical ideas are agreed upon by all posters.

What do you mean by big practical ideas?

In super summation:
What problem?

No problem. Just an option for people if they want to use it, if not, no worries.

Regards
Graeme Fowler

[McDuck]

Hi McDuck, really?? So you think everyone agrees with everyone else on every topic?

What do you mean by big practical ideas?

Regards
Graeme Fowler

1 You can make money on property.
2 Somone else will pay your interest.
3 Time is your friend on this one, as property gains value over extended time.
5 Do your research before you hand over the money.
4 Bad tennnants are a possibility and nightmare
5 Some Government breaks will speed up the process.

that sort of thing.

[orion]

1 You can make money on property.

Yes you can, you can also lose it too.

2 Somone else will pay your interest.

Yes, that is true, but most investors don't think anyone should pay the principle.

3 Time is your friend on this one, as property gains value over extended time.

Has done in the past, but doesn't mean it always will.

4 Do your research before you hand over the money.

Yes

5 Bad tenants are a possibility and nightmare

Sure can be

6 Some Government breaks will speed up the process.

Yep for sure, can work the other way too though.

Regards
Graeme Fowler

[McDuck]

Good style.

Now about your qualifications.

They fall under "general buisness skill", rather than "Property investing".

Now, if a person has poor business skill, then they are going to fail (money wise) in what ever area they choose.

We can't really help those people within the framework of this forum.

[McDuck]

Graeme,

Here is a question for you.

It goes to the very heart of property investing.

You could say that it was the quirk that made the trick work.

How is it that you are able to keep 100% of the profit from a thing that you only own 10% of?

Usually ownership directs the division of the reward.

So, if a Bank owns 90% of the property, then they should get 90% of any gain.

"Right to a share", of any profit, is one of the main concepts behind the concept of ownership.

By the way, did you know the other rights associated with ownership?

[orion]

Good style. Now about your qualifications.They fall under "general buisness skill", rather than "Property investing". Now, if a person has poor business skill, then they are going to fail (money wise) in what ever area they choose. We can't really help those people within the framework of this forum

Hi McDuck, totally lost with this one, can you explain what you mean??

Graeme,
Here is a question for you.
It goes to the very heart of property investing.
You could say that it was the quirk that made the trick work.
How is it that you are able to keep 100% of the profit from a thing that you only own 10% of?

McDuck, 100% of the profit? You might have to explain a bit more. You mean cash flow after it's paid off, or lend you the money while you are taking all the risk, and they still own the building?? Are you talking rental properties, or all properties? Does it work the same if a finance company lends you money for a car? Do you think the finance company should own the car when you have paid all the money back plus interest?

Usually ownership directs the division of the reward.
So, if a Bank owns 90% of the property, then they should get 90% of any gain. "Right to a share", of any profit, is one of the main concepts behind the concept of ownership.

The bank has lent you the money which is their 'business' in other words they are in the 'business of lending money'. If you know how fractional reserve lending works, they don't even have most of the money the lend you anyway, it is 'created'. But let's just say they had the full 100% of money that they lend you. They get paid interest on the money they lend to you, the borrower. Not sure why you think they should get ownership of the asset they lend you the money for, if that is what you are saying?? I'm not following your logic here, maybe I'm mis-interpreting what you are asking.

By the way, did you know the other rights associated with ownership?

Other rights??

Regards
Graeme Fowler

[McDuck]

Hi McDuck, totally lost with this one, can you explain what you mean??



McDuck, 100% of the profit? You might have to explain a bit more. You mean cash flow after it's paid off, or lend you the money while you are taking all the risk, and they still own the building?? Are you talking rental properties, or all properties? Does it work the same if a finance company lends you money for a car? Do you think the finance company should own the car when you have paid all the money back plus interest?


The bank has lent you the money which is their 'business' in other words they are in the 'business of lending money'. If you know how fractional reserve lending works, they don't even have most of the money the lend you anyway, it is 'created'. But let's just say they had the full 100% of money that they lend you. They get paid interest on the money they lend to you, the borrower. Not sure why you think they should get ownership of the asset they lend you the money for, if that is what you are saying?? I'm not following your logic here, maybe I'm mis-interpreting what you are asking.


Other rights??

Regards
Graeme Fowler

Hi Graeme.
go to wiki, and type in "property rights".
that should answer your questions.

[orion]

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Hi McDuck, might be best just to cut and paste what you want me to read or ask, as this showed up nothing doing the search you mentioned as shown above.

Regards
Graeme Fowler

[Badger]

I think Mr McDuck meant this link here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Property

Property is any physical or virtual entity that is owned by an individual or jointly by a group of individuals. An owner of property has the right to consume, sell, rent, mortgage, transfer and exchange his or her property.[1][2][3] Important widely-recognized types of property include real property (land), personal property (other physical possessions), and intellectual property (rights over artistic creations, inventions, etc.), although the latter is not always as widely recognized or enforced.[4] A title, or a right of ownership, is associated with property that establishes the relation between the goods/services and other individuals or groups, assuring the owner the right to dispense with the property in a manner he or she sees fit. Some philosophers assert that property rights arise from social convention. Others find origins for them in morality or natural law (e.g. Saint Irenaeus).

[orion]

Thanks Badger,

I'm still unsure what you are wanting to point out or ask Mc Duck??

Regards
Graeme Fowler

[tpr2]

Just diving in to see if the sticky discussed earlier was created?
I've been off air for a couple of days.