Producer Statement - CCC problem

[Pavan]

Hi

Recently we finished a construction project at the front of our property. The final inspection was passed approximately 6 months ago by the council. Then during the process of getting our Code Compliance Certificate (CCC) from the council, we were told that there was a missing Producer Statement (PS4) from our engineer.

A bit of research and talking to the engineer, we were informed that this PS4 was for the foundations of the house, which are now covered with concrete. So subsequently the engineer cannot inspect the foundations and give us a PS4. It was the builder's responsibility during construction to inform the engineer to make an inspection and give us a PS4, however this never happened.

To make matters worse, the building company has been liquidated since the completion of our project.

Do any of you know if it is possible to get the CCC from the council without this PS4 or have any other suggestions of what we should do in order to get one?

[Dean@Massiveaction]

I've been through this with clients 6 times now. Unless you can find a builder who has some contacts in the council you are probably not going to get CCC ever without pulling the place apart. Sorry the news is not more positive but I have been amazed at how major a problem this generally is. Council has no interest in helping because they are potentially liable down the track if they take a common sense approach.

[Green Fish]

Geotechnical engineers have some pretty fancy gear these days, including ultrasound equipment. If a geotech engineer, using this gear, could certify that the foundations are in accordance with the plan, that might be good enough. Don't see why not.

[3Kings]

Hi, have you checked the council inspection records? Based on my limited experience (we had 2 townhouses built last year) if a producer statement was required the council would note that on the log and would either not pass the inspection or not pass the next inspection until the PS was produced for the previous inspection. In other words it might be useful to find out when the council asked for the PS originally.

As you probably know not all foundations need a PS - ours did and the council insisted on it being produced during the build.

Stewart

[JohnnyJ]

I agree

As a builder we have struck this problem also but have always managed with a common sense approach. The foundations would still quite likely have been inspected by the Local TA. Dig a bit deeper and ask to see the job card If the siting inspection was done at the same time he may have notes on the steelwork. Talk directly to the inspector on the ground....

[Stickman]

Have you got this sorted yet? What council are you with? You are certainly not the first person I have met who has run into this issue! Depending on the information available, there will be a way to achieve you a PS4.

As a first instance, I would check what the inspector has noted on his paperwork. Do not forget that as part of your building consent fees you paid for inspections to be carried out by council to ensure that the works are carried out in accordance with your approved documents. Therefore, you have every right to review this information.

Failing that, I would have a word with the builder and see whether he can provide you with any material receipts for reinforcing delivered to site. This, while not actually proving that reo was placed, will help build your case to show that it was at least delivered onsite.

Next step would be to have a chat with the engineer and look for ways to satisfy him that he can provide a producer statement. Remember, he is not happy to do so at this stage, because it is his registration number that is logged against the project and thus his professional indemnity insurance and his reputation that is on the line.

Further to this you may be able to get a geotech engineer or such to do a scan on the footings to pick up whether there is reo placed in there. They will be able to do some cross sections of the footing that show what is concrete and exactly where the reinforcing bars have been laid. This would not be cheap.

Sorry that this is not a direct answer on 'how to prove that there is reinforcing in the footings'. More detailed advice could be provided if there was more info, such as footing design, council records etc.

Good luck!

Stickman.

[Stickman]

Hi, have you checked the council inspection records? Based on my limited experience (we had 2 townhouses built last year) if a producer statement was required the council would note that on the log and would either not pass the inspection or not pass the next inspection until the PS was produced for the previous inspection. In other words it might be useful to find out when the council asked for the PS originally.

As you probably know not all foundations need a PS - ours did and the council insisted on it being produced during the build.

Stewart

What 3 Kings says is right. If the footings are designed as per NZS3604, then you *may* be able to argue that there was no need for a PS4 as the inspector and the engineer were signing off on the same thing.

This approach has not worked for me, but you never know. At the end of the day, Councils are a beaurecratic organisation only interested in covering their arses. Such is the case for most disciplines in construction now days.

[Green Fish]

It would appear that everyone is worried about being sued in the event that the foundations are found to be defective.

The main point is that the relevant council is at fault - for issuing a building permit without the requisite statement re the foundations. The council cannot issue a building permit, and then, six months later, say that it should not have done so - unless it accepts the responsibility and does something about it.

Pavan: I would concentrate your fire on the council, and the engineer. I know that every council in NZ has liability insurance. And almost every civil engineering firm in NZ is well-run and reputable, with full liability insurance cover.

[outspoken]

Councils can and often do issue Building consents stating that PS4's must be presented at the required stages of the build (usually the inspections) If the engineer prepared a foundations plan and stated that it must be inspected before a concrete pour for them to issue a PS, and it wasn't inspected....then there's bugger all you can do about it except some of the options already mentioned.

[Pavan]

Hi All,

the CCC FINALLY come through just after Christmas.

We basically provided all the information that we had and got our lawyer to liaise with the council.

and job done.

thanks for all the suggestions.