Header Ad Module

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Jane and the Taxman

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Jane and the Taxman

    There is much misunderstanding around the deductibility of mortgage interest for tax purposes relating to residential investment property.

    If the Government-controlled Air New Zealand raises a loan to buy a new airliner they can – and they do – deduct the interest cost of that loan off their income before calculating their taxable profit. If that deductibility is a ‘tax advantage’, a ‘tax break’, or a loophole then surely the Government should disallow that for Air New Zealand. But they don’t. The reality is that every single business in New Zealand, from a brothel to a Bank, is permitted to deduct their interest costs in such a manner – apart from those who provide rental housing.

    And yes, both MBIE and OSH define residential renting as a business.

    There are those who claim that as home owner-occupiers cannot deduct their mortgage interest costs, then why should landlords?
    Consider the situation if you or I borrow money to buy a new car.
    Having got that car, we then derive a benefit from owning it – we can move ourselves around, go to work, carry stuff or go sightseeing. That benefit obviously has value, but we are not required to pay any tax on the value of that benefit.
    Because we have a non-taxable benefit then we cannot deduct our car loan interest off that non-existent tax.
    Should we, instead of using that car for our own needs, operate it as a taxi we derive a very different benefit from that car ownership – we get a cash income from the fares people pay us. But, unlike before, we are now required to pay income tax on that benefit.
    Because we have a taxable benefit then we can deduct our car loan interest off that taxable income.

    Housing used to be, and should be, treated in a similar fashion.
    The owner-occupier of a house derives a valuable benefit – shelter - from living in their house but pays no tax on that benefit whereas the landlord pays tax on the benefit – cash income – they receive.
    That is the logical reason for the difference in treatment of the cost of mortgage interest.

    Imposing this regime on residential landlords seem to have been done not to raise tax money but to pursue an agenda that seeks to eliminate private sector landlords.

    Jane is a school teacher. She is now in her late-40s and has been thinking about how she will live in retirement. Seeing the need for an additional income above the universal pension she invested her savings into an apartment that she now rents out to a tenant.
    Up until recently, the rent she received covered the rates, insurance, and mortgage interest payments on that apartment, with a little bit left over for maintenance.
    She is now suffering the impact of the tax burden imposed by the recently legislated inability to deduct her mortgage interest costs from her taxable income. Jane is now being taxed on fictitious earnings, earnings that don’t really exist.

    Already, with that tax now being imposed at the 50% level, she is having to subsidise that apartment by $200 each week, and if the non-deductibility reached 100% that will cost her $400 each and every week.
    On her fixed salary, she just cannot afford that.

    Jane’s only option is to sell the apartment.

    Almost certainly her tenant will not be able to buy it, so the buyer may well be someone coming out of a relationship breakup or a younger person moving out of a parental home. In those cases that’s one less rental house available in the market.

    So what of the tenant?
    It is highly likely that, given the current shortage, her ex-tenant will end up on the Government housing waiting list and moving into a motel that costs the taxpayer $1000 per week or into Kāinga Ora house where, on average, the taxpayer subsidises each and every house by over $16,000 every year.*

    Bought in against the advice not only of landlord groups but also against the advice of tenant groups and the Government's own advisors who could see that this would rapidly become a costly 'tenant tax', this is making life so difficult for people like Jane. As people like her sell up, tenants are moved out of cost-effective private sector rental housing into high-cost state accommodation that require substantial never-ending taxpayer subsidies far exceeding any possible cost recovery from such a Landlord tax.

    The Government – any Government – is actually losing money by retaining this targeted and punitive tax imposition. It should be removed, not by a staged removal over three years as some political parties now propose, but immediately, which will lessen the costs both to taxpayers and tenants.


    * Figures from Kāinga Ora’s 2021 annual report show public housing rental income was $1.43b, of which $1.04b was subsidies from the Government.
    With 64,206 Kāinga Ora properties, and if the taxpayer-funded subsidy received is divided by that number it equates to taxpayer funds of $16,260 per property in that year.
    Their 2022 report reveals a net deficit after tax was $344 million (2021: deficit $152 million).


  • #2
    Dontcha worry - the gNats, crACT, Winston First et al have the solution at hand.
    Sometime - maybe.

    Also good to see your further erudite contribution, Peter. Keeping those wings polished?

    For those who want to explore more on the illogical, asinine stupidity of gummint housing policy over the years, do have a look through this thread:
    Last edited by Perry; 23-09-2023, 02:35 PM. Reason: Added word: "housing."

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by flyernzl View Post
      There is much misunderstanding around the deductibility of mortgage interest for tax purposes relating to residential investment property.
      The country needs more residential dwellings.

      Why are landlords like Jane and others not buying newbuilds and renting them out in the long term rental market? This will add more housing for tenants. (and landlords get their full tax deductibility).
      Last edited by Perry; 22-09-2023, 09:02 PM. Reason: Trimmed quoted text

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Chris W View Post


        The country needs more residential dwellings.

        Why are landlords like Jane and others not buying newbuilds and renting them out in the long term rental market? This will add more housing for tenants. (and landlords get their full tax deductibility).
        And so could the first home buyers be doing that like my parents and parents of most people I know.

        Landlords don’t do it because they aren’t developers. They are quite different skills required to be a developer. Plus the rents would have to be at much higher levels than they are at the moment to be viable. Plus the risk of putting a tenant in a house made of brand new materials that resemble weetbix if water is left sitting in them is just not sensible especially since the government won’t even let tenants be held responsible for careless damage. At least owner occupier are more likely to care for these fragile new builds.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Chris W View Post


          The country needs more residential dwellings.

          Why are landlords like Jane and others not buying newbuilds and renting them out in the long term rental market? This will add more housing for tenants. (and landlords get their full tax deductibility).
          Chris W Are the newbuilds exempted? And how long is the long term rentals?​

          Comment


          • #6
            Why are landlords like Jane and others not buying newbuilds and renting them out in the long term rental market?

            Because newbuilds are a guaranteed money-losing 'investment'.

            Take an example:
            Purchase cost of new-build: $800,000

            Interest at 7% $56,000
            Rates + insurance, say $4000
            So holding cost $60,000

            Rent @ $600/wk $30,000

            Therefore annual loss $30,000 - thats $600 per week!! Every week. Even with no maintenance costs.


            Thus the whole concept is fatally flawed.
            Only the terminally stupid and those incapable of basic arithmetic would enter into that sort of deal.

            Note also that 'long term' is a mirage - It is all very well for promoters to state that “tenants are given a long-term lease” but they haven’t, really.
            Such tenancies will always be subject to the restrictions of the Residential Tenancies Act.
            What they have actually been given is a RTA-mandated fixed term tenancy where, under recently introduced legislation, the tenant can extend indefinitely if they choose to do so and with the property owner having absolutely no say in the matter.



            Last edited by flyernzl; 22-09-2023, 06:56 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by hawkeye View Post

              Landlords don’t do it because they aren’t developers. They are quite different skills required to be a developer.
              Why don't landlords buy newbuilds (a newly completed and constructed new build) from a developer / builder - e.g Fletchers, Williams, etc? Landlords don't have to build themselves or become a developer.

              Here are a couple of examples of newbuilds currently for sale - construction completed and available for immediate possession.

              Find House & land, New apartment, New townhouse & terraced and New house listings on Trade Me Property, New Zealand's #1 property site.

              Title and CCC issued. Immediate possession is available. Discover these brand-new homes in the highly sought-after Mt Wellington area, offering exceptional ...




              Originally posted by hawkeye View Post

              Plus the rents would have to be at much higher levels than they are at the moment to be viable.
              So the price of newbuilds has to come down, or the landlord buyer could use more equity to make the property cashflow positive.

              Originally posted by hawkeye View Post

              Plus the risk of putting a tenant in a house made of brand new materials that resemble weetbix if water is left sitting in them is just not sensible
              Are construction materials of new builds all like this? There isn't a single newbuild in the country that is adequately constructed for a landlord?


              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by flyernzl View Post
                Why are landlords like Jane and others not buying newbuilds and renting them out in the long term rental market?

                Because newbuilds are a guaranteed money-losing 'investment'.

                Take an example:
                Purchase cost of new-build: $800,000

                Interest at 7% $56,000
                Rates + insurance, say $4000
                So holding cost $60,000

                Rent @ $600/wk $30,000

                Therefore annual loss $30,000 - thats $600 per week!! Every week. Even with no maintenance costs.


                Thus the whole concept is fatally flawed.
                Only the terminally stupid and those incapable of basic arithmetic would enter into that sort of deal.

                Those numbers may not make sense for a cashflow oriented property investor, but may make sense for a number of property investors who are focused on capital growth.


                If you take the net rental of $26,000 per year ($30,000 less rates, insurance of $4,000), at a 7.0% mortgage interest rate on interest only, that can service a mortgage of $371,428 or LVR of of 46%. The other 54% can be equity (from the existing equity of a property investors portfolio). That results in a cashflow neutral property investment.
                Last edited by Chris W; 26-09-2023, 02:16 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  So the 'investor' is supposed to forgo any return on his 54% - $432000? and also get no reward for his time and worry.

                  Contrary to popular opinion, making money in the property market is not just a matter of buying any property at any price, putting in a tenant, and then waiting for the gold bars to fall out of the sky. The skill is to buy well, often buying where a property needs improvement or where alterations and renovations can increase rental income. A new build cannot offer this opportunity, it is what it is and as such can usually only offer the opportunity of an ongoing running cash loss to the investor.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by flyernzl View Post

                    So the 'investor' is supposed to forgo any return on his 54% - $432000? and also get no reward for his time and worry.
                    The owner has the opportunity for house price growth - those are the returns that attract capital growth oriented buyers.

                    There are 2 key sources of returns for owners of non owner occupied properties
                    1) net rental income after operating expenses
                    2) price appreciation.

                    This is before consideration on how best to finance their purchase (i.e combination of debt and equity financing)

                    Each property is somewhere on the spectrum between:
                    1) all of the source of returns are from net rental income
                    2) all of the source of returns are from price appreciation


                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by flyernzl View Post
                      [FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=#222222]There is much misunderstanding around the deductibility of mortgage interest for tax purposes relating to residential investment property...
                      Ha
                      It's a nice bit of writing.
                      Points well made.
                      My main observation ( apart from the fact that it's plea made with obvious self interest)..
                      Is that the picture is too small.
                      If only a few landlords were playing the game it would be fine.
                      Unfortunately the level of debt now involved in property globally has become problematic.
                      You need the financial system to be stable, to deliver your food and essentials and services.
                      Housing games are seriously undermining that.
                      So a reset is required. Sorry. You might have to find a new way to make money.
                      Or not. People have historically ground their civilizations into the ground with similar foolishness.
                      What's one more go at it.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by flyernzl View Post

                        Already, with that tax now being imposed at the 50% level, she is having to subsidise that apartment by $200 each week, and if the non-deductibility reached 100% that will cost her $400 each and every week.
                        A 100% equity financed buyer (i.e. 0% debt financing) would pay tax on the net rental of $26,000. Assuming a 33% tax rate, this is tax of $8,580 (or $165 per week), resulting in net positive cashflow of $17,420 (net positive cashflow of $335 per week). A 100% equity financed property investor is positive cashflow on this property and gets the future capital gains (which some property commentators say is 5% p.a - and its all tax free if held long enough). As you can see, a 100% equity financed investor is receiving their returns from their investment property - they aren’t 'foregoing' anything on their investment.

                        For Jane, a leveraged investor (I think flyernzl is working on 100% debt financed, 0% equity) at 0% deductibility of interest, the number calculated above is a net cash outflow of $400 per week (a swing of $735 per week from positive cashflow of $335 per week to negative cashflow of $400 per week)

                        So what is causing the extra $735 per week cash payment for a leveraged investor compared to a 100% equity financed investor who has a net cash inflow of $335 per week after tax? It is the interest on the debt used to finance their purchase.

                        Reduce the debt, or eliminate the debt entirely, and the property is cashflow positive. Voila!

                        The interest deductibility issue is not the main cause of the negative cashflow for Jane. The main cause of the negative cashflow is that the debt level is too high at current interest rate levels. For a 100% debt financed property investor, if the mortgage interest rate was 0%, the property would be positive cashflow to the tune of $335 per week (same as the 100% equity financed investor).
                        Last edited by Chris W; 26-09-2023, 08:03 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by samsinclair View Post

                          Chris W
                          1) Are the newbuilds exempted?
                          2) And how long is the long term rentals?​
                          1) Newbuilds for long term rentals are eligible for 100% interest deductibility
                          2) Where there is a long term tenant (i.e. not short term rentals advertised on platforms such as Airbnb, Bookabach, etc which are akin to a motel business)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by flyernzl View Post

                            Take an example:
                            Purchase cost of new-build: $800,000

                            Interest at 7% $56,000
                            Rates + insurance, say $4000
                            So holding cost $60,000

                            Rent @ $600/wk $30,000

                            Therefore annual loss $30,000 - thats $600 per week!! Every week. Even with no maintenance costs.

                            To make it clearer, let's rearrange this - amounts in brackets are deductions

                            A) Cashflow if 0% interest deductibility

                            Rent @ $600/wk: $30,000​ - 576 per week (average per week for 52 weeks)
                            Rates + insurance, say (4,000) - 76 per week

                            Operating profit $26,000 - 500 per week

                            Tax at 33% - assumes 0% interest deductibility: ($8,580) - 165 per week
                            Profit before interest: $17,420 - 335 per week (i.e positive cashflow)

                            Interest at 7% ($56,000) - 1,076 per week

                            Annual profit (loss): ($38,580) - 741 per week (i.e negative cashflow)


                            B) Cashflow if 100% interest deductibility - newbuild or Kainga Ora

                            Rent @ $600/wk: $30,000​ - 576 per week (average per week for 52 weeks)
                            Rates + insurance, say (4,000) - 76 per week

                            Operating profit $26,000 - 500 per week

                            Profit before interest and tax: $26,000 - 500 per week (i.e positive cashflow)

                            Interest at 7% ($56,000) - 1,076 per week

                            (Loss) Profit after interest : ($30,000) - 576 per week (i.e negative cashflow)

                            Tax at 33% - assumes 100% interest deductibility: $0 - 0 per week

                            Annual profit (loss) after tax: ($30,000) - 576 per week (i.e negative cashflow)


                            So even if 100% interest deductibility returns, Jane will still be in negative cashflow on her investment property.


                            The negative cashflow issue is not about Jane and the Taxman, the negative cashflow issue is about Jane and her unsustainable level of debt at current mortgage interest rates.
                            Last edited by Chris W; 27-09-2023, 10:19 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Jane has not bought a new build.
                              Jame already has bought a non-new apartment some time ago.
                              Jane has had this apartment rented out for a few years.
                              Before Labour changed the rules the rent Jane is receiving covered her costs in mortgage interest, rates, insurance, and a bit more which she could spend on maintenance (as already explained).
                              Jane was happy.
                              Now, with Labour changing the rules around the deductibility of interest, Jane is facing a negative cash flow - which she cannot sustain.
                              If these rules remain in force, Jane will have to sell.

                              Jane cannot sell and then buy a new build because the new-build will lose even more money each and every week.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X