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  • Censorship

    About 5 this morning I put a post here asking a question about how that thread was morphing and why was it not cut and sent to a new thread. my post was removed within the hour (it would have been post 47), and the morphing posts remain. So far, no PM explaining what/why.

    As instructed by that thread, I've started this one.

    I believe that my post was not breaking any of "the rules".

    I'm now becoming concerned at the censorship I percieve happening.

    If this place isn't fun to visit, why would I?
    www.3888444.co.nz
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  • #2
    Can someone please explain where the thread on Millionaires Mastery went?

    Comment


    • #3
      I guess you may not have read the earlier announcement by the moderators - click here

      While we resist change - it is inevitable and PropertyTalk.com is having to change and 'clean up' it's act. Please read and re-read the announcement and rather than fight the changes happening - or attempt to push the boundaries of the rules - let's just abide by them and focus on property investment issues not personalities. If you find this all a bit too distressing or too hard to do - may I suggest you take a break.

      Thank you for your patience and tolerance while we all deal with the paradigm shift.

      Cheers,

      Donna
      SEARCH PropertyTalk, About PropertyTalk

      BusinessBlogs - the best business articles are found here

      Comment


      • #4
        Donna, How about the Millionaires Mastery Thread?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by donna View Post
          I guess you may not have read the earlier announcement by the moderators - click here
          Cheers,

          Donna
          Now you have upset me. Not only by what you have actually said, but by what you have implied that I have not read.

          Originally posted by Donna
          may I suggest you take a break.
          I'll be surprised if this thread actually lasts.
          www.3888444.co.nz
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          • #6
            Donna,

            I sympathise with all the work the mods have at the moment. I have to date not posted in any of the threads complaining about moderation as per the announcement. But since you have departed from that by posting in this thread, I have to say I didn't think the Millionaires Mastery thread broke any rules.

            In the announcement David stated:
            Originally posted by Monid View Post
            Any posts containing personal attacks on forum members or others will be removed in their entirety from now on (we have in the past aimed to edit these posts - we shall do so no longer). And at the moderators discretion the individual posting the personal attack will be added to the watchlist. This includes making sniping comments, throwaway jokes and derisive implications.

            This does not mean that you cannot be critical or ask questions of a company's or person's actions or activities - however you need to provide evidence for critical comments, and make them in a civil, well mannered fashion. Making allegations without providing evidence is inappropriate. Robust questioning conducted appropriately is permitted - since this is a property discussion forum the discussion of property related companies and personalities are a fair topic of discussion - as long as it is conducted well.

            Likewise, these comments ought to be made in an appropriate place (ie by starting a new thread) rather than derailing a thread on another topic
            The Millionaires Mastery thread was started specifically to discuss Millionaires Mastery.

            The level of criticism was very low. There were some throw away comments and horsing around but as far as I can recall the closest they came to anything like a personal attack was commenting on how interconnected a lot of these entities are. That is pretty innocuous.

            The thread was at a point where someone who had attended the course commented and it was quite possible that the original poster was going to have the opportunity to have some (what seemed to be quite genuine) questions answered.

            The thread was then removed in its entirety.

            It seems to me that you may as well delete the second paragraph of the above quote from David because it is difficult to see how anything would be regarded as acceptable on recent experience.

            To be blunt, if that is to continue happening to threads which have as little level of personal attacks as that one then, like Keys, I would have to question my involvement in this forum.

            There are two main reasons for that:
            1. None of us are paid to be here. I seem to be one of the few who doesn't use this forum to push some business or other. If it isn't enjoyable I will simply spend my time elsewhere; and
            2. I don't like feeling like I am wasting my time whenever I do give some advice because the thread may arbitrarily disappear.

            I hope a happy middle ground can be found but at present the moderation does seem to me to be a little excessive.

            Xav

            Ps. If you keep suggesting people like Keys take a break then your ratio of useful content to "other" will not be going in the direction these changes were designed to make it go.
            Last edited by Xav; 19-03-2010, 05:28 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              I have just had a look around the two property investment forums operating out of Australia - and I failed to see any threads similar to what have been removed from PropertyTalk.com for review.

              Yes we may not be 'right on the button' right now as we also cope with the new changes but I am confident we will get the balance right....and as you'd expect we are looking at other forums for guidance. Why are we making these changes....because we have to - to avoid litigation.

              Cheers,

              Donna
              SEARCH PropertyTalk, About PropertyTalk

              BusinessBlogs - the best business articles are found here

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by donna View Post
                Why are we making these changes....because we have to - to avoid litigation.
                Thank you Donna. I think that is the first time I have heard that from an official source although I may have missed it the first time. I am sorry to hear that. If you are comfortable in disclosing it I and I'm sure many others would be interested to know who that pressue is coming from.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I appreciate the work that moderators do in forums like this but I really struggle to see what was wrong in the Millionaires Mastery thread. I have had a look at http://www.propertyinvesting.com and there are multiple topics discussing courses and the dealings of professionals in the industry.

                  Can someone please outline what specifically was written to justify the censorship?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hi J-J,

                    Welcome back to posting on PropertyTalk.com - I see you've been away a while - until your recent posts in this thread and the Millionaire Mastery wasn't your last post in December 2008?


                    Cheers,

                    Donna
                    SEARCH PropertyTalk, About PropertyTalk

                    BusinessBlogs - the best business articles are found here

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Soon all you will see here are property guru type trying to sell their courses to each other, hope that goes well for them.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by donna View Post
                        Hi J-J,

                        Welcome back to posting on PropertyTalk.com - I see you've been away a while - until your recent posts in this thread and the Millionaire Mastery wasn't your last post in December 2008?


                        Cheers,

                        Donna
                        That is correct, I have recently set up an RSS feed to the forum so I have been reading most of the articles posted. This thread interested me enough to post seeing as I find it hard to see how anyone can justify spending so much money on a "hollow promise" (in my opinion, or is that against the rules).

                        I have also seen how much the quality of the forum has reduced dramatically since I first joined. I find it amazing that there is so much bias creeping into the censorship. From my perspective this is no longer a subjective forum and that is a shame. People such as myself come here for a varied and well educated perspective on the property market. The majority of topics are now dominated by professionals with an agenda trying to sell something from a very biased point of view.

                        If it isn't too much hassle for you, can you please explain what part of the Millionaires Mastery thread justified its deletion? We were finally getting to a point where I was learning about the value of such a program.
                        Last edited by J_J; 19-03-2010, 09:54 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by WBuffett View Post
                          Soon all you will see here are property guru type trying to sell their courses to each other, hope that goes well for them.
                          Umm I don't think so as the rules apply to everyone.

                          Cheers,

                          Donna
                          SEARCH PropertyTalk, About PropertyTalk

                          BusinessBlogs - the best business articles are found here

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by J_J View Post
                            That is correct, I have recently set up an RSS feed to the forum so I have been reading most of the articles posted. This thread interested me enough to post seeing as I find it hard to see how anyone can justify spending so much money on a "hollow promise" (in my opinion, or is that against the rules).

                            I have also seen how much the quality of the forum has reduced dramatically since I first joined. I find it amazing that there is so much bias creeping into the censorship.
                            Interesting as the recent 'clean up' is only a few days old, and yes change is hard for all of us.

                            From my perspective this is no longer a subjective forum and that is a shame. People such as myself come here for a varied and well educated perspective on the property market. The majority of topics are now dominated by professionals with an agenda trying to sell something from a very biased point of view.
                            It's a shame we haven't heard from you earlier J-J I am looking forward to your posts in property investment topics. The quality of the forums is on all our shoulders and over time each user is known by the quality and tone of their posts...there's just no escaping that is there...but if you are not using your real name then I suppose there's no lose aye!

                            If it isn't too much hassle for you, can you please explain what part of the Millionaires Mastery thread justified its deletion? We were finally getting to a point where I was learning about the value of such a program.
                            No 'hassle' J-J - the moderators will review the thread and decide what if all or any posts can be released. While I appreciate this whole new process is a nuisance - it is required so we have to accept it whether we decide to come to these public forums or not. That choice is ours.

                            Cheers,

                            Donna
                            SEARCH PropertyTalk, About PropertyTalk

                            BusinessBlogs - the best business articles are found here

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by donna View Post
                              Why are we making these changes....because we have to - to avoid litigation.

                              Cheers,

                              Donna
                              Thank you for at last spelling it out.
                              The last thing I (and I hope everyone else) wants is PT being shut down by lawsuits.
                              I think we need some training and education if you want a change from us.
                              Can you give us non-lawyers some examples and reasons and then we can understand where you (PT) are heading and we can help the cause.
                              It seems there is a big issue of lawsuits and how to avoid them - I'm happy to work with PT to achieve that.
                              A minor issue is the 'kiwi and his stupid spelling debates and arguing with the teacher' type posts (no offence intended, kiwi, just inventing an example) and the mods can delete those posts as they see fit.
                              Maybe if there is a litigation risk then the mods can freeze the thread with a 'Litigation' heading and we know to stand back for a while.
                              If there is no litigation threat and a thread is getting silly then the mods should just hack it to bits and it's sorted there and then.
                              Would this help?

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