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  • Announcement - Please Read.

    There has been considerable complaint of late about the moderating team and our practices from several quarters. There has likewise from these quarters been a distressingly common tendency to focus on personalities and to attack individuals and forum members - treating them with disrespect. (Note this is not siding with either side - both have behaved disgracefully in some instances)

    Frankly this behaviour turns propertytalk from a valuable discussion forum into a kindergarden - and not a very fun one.

    In the interests of cleaning things up, we are taking the action of removing several posts on several threads that have been deemed to be damaging to the good natured discussion that we aim to foster on Propertytalk.

    Any posts containing personal attacks on forum members or others will be removed in their entirety from now on (we have in the past aimed to edit these posts - we shall do so no longer). And at the moderators discretion the individual posting the personal attack will be added to the watchlist. This includes making sniping comments, throwaway jokes and derisive implications.

    This does not mean that you cannot be critical or ask questions of a company's or person's actions or activities - however you need to provide evidence for critical comments, and make them in a civil, well mannered fashion. Making allegations without providing evidence is inappropriate. Robust questioning conducted appropriately is permitted - since this is a property discussion forum the discussion of property related companies and personalities are a fair topic of discussion - as long as it is conducted well.

    Likewise, these comments ought to be made in an appropriate place (ie by starting a new thread) rather than derailing a thread on another topic.

    As I noted above there has been a distressing tendency to moan publicly about moderation and the moderators - both because we (according to some folk) over moderate and (according to some folk) under moderate. While we appreciate that this is a public forum and there is some reasonable scope for discussing what we want our community to be like, and this includes how and what we moderate we would appreciate it if you had the courtesy to raise concerns first via PM and give the moderators some time to respond. And given that these posts usually derail the conversation in the original thread where the moderation occurred if made in there, or in a fashion that breaks other rules of PT (ie contains obscenity or personal attacks, threats) these posts will often be removed. While we endeavour to reasonably explain and justify our actions - ultimately we are the final arbitrator and if you aren't happy with that, we suggest you find a different forum with different rules.

    This also goes for if you feel that a post is inappropriate rather than reacting to it in the forums please report the post stating clearly which rules it breaks and which aspects of it breaks those rules.

    We are also aiming to clean up the usage of inappropriate language on the forums - these are a public space, and while you might be happy with obscenities - many aren't.

    We will shortly be introducing a new points based system of moderation where posters who break the forum rules will automatically be given points, and when enough of these are accumulated they will be watchlisted or banned. Hopefully this new system will encourage those of you who cannot play nice to either shape up or to be frank ship out.

    The Moderating Team
    New to property investing? See: Best PropertyTalk Threads for New and Old Investors And/Or:Propertytalk Wiki


  • #2
    Noted.

    (must enter more characters)
    www.3888444.co.nz
    Facebook Page

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    • #3
      May I please confirm whether spelling and grammar will be moderated? It seems to be a bit hit & miss with some moderators. I'd prefer posts weren't changed to correct spelling otherwise the risk is ran that meaning is lost (if misspellings are deliberate).

      Also, with reference to throwaway jokes... don't you think satire or joking comments have their place? If the intention is to make a joke but with that joke make a valid point then I think it's a valid post. Surely we don't all have to agree or disagree in the same way?

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      • #4
        Spelling and grammar will be corrected as the moderators see fit.

        Satire and joking comments have their place, but not when used to poke fun at or otherwise denigrate another poster.

        Valid points, in the context of a discussion about Property Investment are generally best made clearly - not everyone will share your sense of humour and thus get the point that you are trying to make.

        I think we would rather leave the humour to the Forum Funnies (and Glen's tales from his never-ending list of tenant anecdotes!).

        cube
        DFTBA

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        • #5
          Originally posted by k1w1 View Post
          May I please confirm whether spelling and grammar will be moderated? It seems to be a bit hit & miss with some moderators. I'd prefer posts weren't changed to correct spelling otherwise the risk is ran that meaning is lost (if misspellings are deliberate).

          Also, with reference to throwaway jokes... don't you think satire or joking comments have their place? If the intention is to make a joke but with that joke make a valid point then I think it's a valid post. Surely we don't all have to agree or disagree in the same way?
          While some have been banned for poor spelling and grammer such as orbital etc, I think that was more a reflection on the fact that the moderators wished them to learn english better then come back to propertytalk. As such even though your spelling and grammer is very poor Kiwi1 I think you should be allowed to continue to post here, but perhaps with the aid of a spell check.

          Re Throwaway jokes, property is a serious business, if you make a joke you may hurt a persons feelings such as telling someone they live in a hick town ..that could cause that person to cry and have a meltdown ..nobody wants that happening.

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          • #6
            Sorry, still confused. They have their place, you say. Does that mean they are limited to one section only from this point onwards (the forum funnies?) If posted on 'regular' branches then are you saying that any satire or jokes will be deleted, or only if the joke is used to denigrate another poster?

            Sorry to harp, but it's not clear cut and I'd like to know the rules, if these rules are about to be clamped down upon with such vigour.

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            • #7
              Was on Jury Service last week.

              While chatting in the deliberation room on one of the (many) times we weren't allowed to hear what was going on in court the subject of employment came up.

              Now, it's not allowed to ask someone what they do for a job. Could be embarrassing to find out they were unemployed.

              As for rules being clamped down on and adhered to? Well, sometimes there's just a cleaning out of the lax attitude which creeps in at times. Smarten up a little and we're off again.

              Sometimes, people get annoyed when they get pulled up for a particular reason and then find that others are doing the same thing without (apparent) moderation.
              Last edited by Keys; 15-03-2010, 12:43 PM. Reason: Add to post.
              www.3888444.co.nz
              Facebook Page

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              • #8
                More embarrassing to admit you work in IT and do part-time LL'ing I'd have thought.

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                • #9
                  I like what the moderators are doing. I cant stand the personal attacks that some posters make on others.
                  Im here to learn what goes on so it is content that is important to me.

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                  • #10
                    In that case, motivated, you won't mind when they insert apostrophes into 'cant' and 'Im'. Please understand that's not a personal attack on you. I agree 100% that content is critical, and make the point that spelling and grammar is of little consequence to that content, so long as the message is clear.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by k1w1 View Post
                      In that case, motivated, you won't mind when they insert apostrophes into 'cant' and 'Im'. Please understand that's not a personal attack on you. I agree 100% that content is critical, and make the point that spelling and grammar is of little consequence to that content, so long as the message is clear.
                      Retired English teachers are like anyone else, they need to occupy their time, for enjoyment or otherwise, why would you begrudge them that?

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by k1w1 View Post
                        Sorry, still confused. They have their place, you say. Does that mean they are limited to one section only from this point onwards (the forum funnies?) If posted on 'regular' branches then are you saying that any satire or jokes will be deleted, or only if the joke is used to denigrate another poster?

                        Sorry to harp, but it's not clear cut and I'd like to know the rules, if these rules are about to be clamped down upon with such vigour.
                        Hi K1w1
                        No we mean they are allowed on the general forums - however if they are denigrating other posters, or otherwise contravening the rules then they will be removed.

                        I'll note in general humour doesn't come across that easily online - it is an easy source of misunderstanding so I would suggest if you want to make a point - don't do it in gag format!

                        Cheers
                        David
                        New to property investing? See: Best PropertyTalk Threads for New and Old Investors And/Or:Propertytalk Wiki

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                        • #13
                          New Rules - Matt Gilligan's View

                          To me, this is about ethical publishing standards, and it is about making sure that people are acting in a lawful manner in here. Many statements made when considered cumulatively by the posters, or network of posters supporting them, are defamatory in nature and expose PT and the poster to liability.

                          Smear campaigns orchestrated to undermine rivals and spread dissent about an organization are illegal. PT know this because I have reviewed the site with my solicitors and we have legal advice to this effect that I have shared with Donna and Mark. It is not hard to prove it, - you just follow the culprits around and take screen shots of a months posting and you get a clear picture they are running a smear campaign on rivals. Its gross and undermining of the culture in here.

                          But this is also about making PT a nice place to be. And that is the best part of what the moderators are proposing here. Making this please a nice place to participate in.

                          So this this is fantastic news for PT and well done moderators for making a move to clean this place up. From my perspective it became a cess pit with the bun fights, and some were actually using PT for a defamatory smear campaign on their competitors. This is and was totally unacceptable and illegal.

                          The point I was making in Friday's and Saturday's posts, is that this is a forum for people to come to to debate and learn about everything property and related topics that take our fancy. The forum has become derailed by a few, in their furtherance of their own commercial interest. As we all know, some of the smear campaigns in here have been very clever and well crafted smear smear campaigns ( that deride others) while seeming to be in public interest. And the outcome is constructive debate morphs into feuding battles, with the debate/knowledge going by the wayside.

                          I look forward to a constructive, focused debate and information sharing without the politics of competitors selling themselves by smearing crap all over others.

                          Bravo PT, (if you follow through now). And thanks to the hardworking moderators for caring and stretching themselves to change their view of this place. I know its not easy.
                          Matthew Gilligan CA - E-mail Matt
                          Chartered Accountant Specialising in Tax Structures, Property & Trusts
                          Read my book: Tax Structures 101

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                          • #14
                            If Mat follows the new rules so will I
                            OllyN [email protected]
                            Independent Property Consultant
                            Residential and Commercial Solutions

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                            • #15
                              Spelling and grammar is important to help make the message clear.
                              "There's one way to find out if a man is honest-ask him. If he says 'yes,' you know he is a crook." Groucho Marx

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