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  • Word of caution for the newbies.

    Word of caution for the newbies.
    I am writing this for all the People new to these forums and Property investing.

    I believe at the moment people on these forums can be roughly broken down into three groups.

    1# the newbie or soon to be Property investor looking for guidance or information.
    2# the seasoned investor with one or more property cycles under their belt.
    3#and the emerging group of negative posters hell bent on portraying Property investing in a bad light.
    Now I’m not talking about people saying turbulent times are coming. This is something I think all of us agree on.

    I’m talking about the people who seem to want the market to crash and want to see mum and dad investors lose everything. They seem to be getting satisfaction from the current slow down and appear to be trying to change sentiment in an attempt to control the market’s direction. What their motivation is to even be on these forums is a mystery to me. These people to provide some service because they show the negatives to investing and show you where to show caution and do more research. Use them for this but that's it I say.

    You know what. I hate golf. So it would come as no surprise that you will never catch me on a golfing forum. This cannot be said for a few trolling these forums at the moment.

    I bring this up because if you are a genuine member here and have been for some time. These people are easy to spot and therefore ignore. But the newbie’s may not know this and therefore think any response they read is a genuine person wanting to help. This is not always the case.

    There are many people on this forum who have seen it all and genuinely have a lot to offer. They will tell you the good and bad points and where they have gone wrong over the years. Also where they have succeeded. These are the people to look for. I thank these people for sharing their experiences and I hope to be in a similar situation later in life so I can come on these forums and share my stories. Both good and bad.

    The fact remains you are on here because you have chosen or you are considering using property to increase your wealth. Don’t let people sway you with their own bitter spin on things. There is no doubt that the market has changed and the market direction over the next 5 years is anyone’s guess. So I say take on board all HONEST information on offer. Do you own research and use the information available here to help you achieve this.

    You can throw this post back in my face if you wish but I have been on here for over two years. And during the last few months I have noticed not everyone is on here to help. Sad really. Look for the good guy and watch out for that 1 % who are not here to help.

    There have been several long-term posters who have made valuable contributions to the forum over the years and who have left the forum in recent months for various reasons. The forum is, I believe, the poorer for their departure, and their experience and invaluable contributions will be sorely missed by seasoned forumites and newbies alike.

    A number of forumites have made the point (in various recent threads) that all points of view are welcome - and so they should be! But, in my view, there is no place on the forum for the abuse of others or of their points of view. Agree to disagree, by all means - but surely we can all do this in a civilized and respectful manner.


  • #2
    Well said

    Pretty much what I've been thinking for awhile.
    Good on you TT

    Allan

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Taupo Tiger View Post

      I’m talking about the people who seem to want the market to crash and want to see mum and dad investors lose everything. They seem to be getting satisfaction from the current slow down and appear to be trying to change sentiment in an attempt to control the market’s direction. What their motivation is to even be on these forums is a mystery to me. These people to provide some service because they show the negatives to investing and show you where to show caution and do more research. Use them for this but that's it I say.

      You know what. I hate golf. So it would come as no surprise that you will never catch me on a golfing forum. This cannot be said for a few trolling these forums at the moment.
      Care to nominate a few of these trolls, Taupo Tiger?
      Maybe a name-and-shame might improve the forum.

      Comment


      • #4
        Hear, hear!. These shaky times have bought out all the conspiracy theorists and malcontents for sure, almost forgotten this is a property investment forum

        Comment


        • #5
          Not sure what the purpose of this thread is. Are you suggesting a few negative posts on this forum will crash the already crashing market?

          I have been reading posts on PT for over 4 years and thanks to some of the info gained made reasonable profits. Also thanks to some of the more cautious posters (CD, Olly etc) I was able to realise I was grossly undercapitalised at the start of last year for the amount of property I was invested in. This allowed me to obey the first law of investing and 'Preserve Capital'. I am very grateful for PT as a resource and these more cautious posters in particular.

          Posters on this forum can neither talk the market up nor down. Unfortunately it is possible for 'Newbies' as you refer to be enticed into a market that is no place for the undercapitalised investor. They will lose their shirt. It is for these readers the cautious posters write. Be careful with your advice as it may be responsible for someone losing the roof over there head.

          Comment


          • #6
            Reply to Ms Tiger

            This was the 39th post by Ms Tiger, and virtually the first that Ms Tiger has not posted on the RM forum. She has been one of RM's most vociferous supporters over the past couple of years.

            Alas, poormastery is not quite sure what Ms Tiger's point is above.

            Arguably the four biggest RM critics (Commercial Dan, xris, Weasel Driver and myself) were all banned by the PT monitors, for alleged "negative thinking", reputedly due to legal threats from RM. Most of your main critics have therefore been gagged - what more do you want?

            Nonetheless, the market as a whole has now turned, so what was described as "negative thinking" when poormastery joined PT is now the mainstream view.

            Having said this, poormastery himself was massively overcapitalised before the recent turmoil, so is now trying to buy 10 - 20 properties in the next year or two, but only if valuations fall to a compelling enough level. Of course, my portfolio is already bigger than most of the cult leader con artists, and I was prepared for a significant property price correction.

            The spruikers weren't prepared for a downturn, and most of them look like they will be blown away in the next year or two - another prediction poormastery is due to get right.

            If sentiment now means that the spruikers can't sell their legendary "education" dances for $9k a throw, I don't see this as a bad thing. Newbies should invest when the numbers make sense - not because someone with a banjo and bright socks can make great shapes on the dance floor.

            Personally, I welcome the end of the stupid hype, brain washing and mumbo jumbo surrounding the property investing "education" industry in recent years. I always saw through the nonsense. Investing is a serious business - dancing like a chicken and spouting stupid get rich quick cliches was never going to be enough.

            Poormastery will be one of the landlords who will not just survive any downturn, but will thrive on it. Nonetheless, I still feel a sense of compassion and sympathy for the newbies who bought into the impressive sales pitch of spruikers - a process that was unfortunately (and perhaps unconsciously) facilitated by this forum.

            Irrespectively, the legendary "negative thinkers" won't leave as big a trail of bankrupt and destroyed lives as the spruikers will leave. Make no mistake - many older peoples lives have been destroyed by the Blue Peak collapse et al.

            I'm sorry, Ms Tiger - its over for the cults for many years, until the next boom cycle. No amount of wailing by the likes of you will give the spruikers any credibility with the general public. The cults have been well and truly busted, at least for the next few years.

            Rgds,
            *poormastery*

            Comment


            • #7
              I agree with the original poster. I think we all know the type of poster he is referring to, and it isnt the ones who are simply predicting tougher times and caution. There are some people on this board suffering from textbook Shadenfreude.

              They are conspioracy theorists masquerading as financial literate people.

              OllyN is quite negative with some of his views and I have disagreed with some of his posts, but thats fine. And totally different to certain posters on this board who to be quite honest just peddle nonsense. No better than the spruikers who peddled the silly line thsat this boom was 'different', it wasnt. Yet people get awy with peddling the line that this slump is 'different'

              I would take any advice about commodities given on this forum with a huge grain of salt as some of the advice I have seen given is ... appalling.

              Another example is Austrokiwi, we dont agree on many things, but I can see the logic of his arguments even if I disagree.

              I dont really visit the voards here very often as it has become way to full of tinfoil hat wearing, self appointed financial whizz kids.

              Comment


              • #8
                I agree with TT. People (especially newbies) need to be very careful who they take advice from on this forum.
                The only way to get benefit from this forum (IMHO) is to read lots and try to summarise the overall feeling on the forum and draw you own conclusions.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by poormastery View Post
                  Arguably the four biggest RM critics (Commercial Dan, xris, Weasel Driver and myself) were all banned by the PT monitors, for alleged "negative thinking", reputedly due to legal threats from RM. Most of your main critics have therefore been gagged - what more do you want?
                  For such an advocate of the "truth" it is a shame you seem unable to express it Poormastery.

                  I'm not greatly convinced that you have got the four biggest RM critics there PM, Superdad (beginner of your favorite thread and now a moderator, despite his views on RM) surely has to be up there, and I had thought I was fairly critical myself. I'd also add in Peter Empowered and Olly for good measure. So if there is a pro-RM bias how do you explain that these other 4 are not "banned" and that 2 of us are now moderators?

                  As has been said before no one was banned, certainly not the four who are listed above, they were just put on the watch list because like yourself, they were frequently breaking forum rules.

                  There is no forum rule regarding 'negative thinking' there is regarding making negative anonymous comments about an individual or business. This is a rule that came from and is supported by the propertytalk community to allow people to assess whether a complaint is being made in good faith, or simply an attack to discredit for other reasons.

                  Really it just weakens your arguments (some of which I agree with) when you exaggerate so much.

                  Cheers
                  David Hunter
                  New to property investing? See: Best PropertyTalk Threads for New and Old Investors And/Or:Propertytalk Wiki

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Poormastery,I know, according to many who post here that things at RM are tight,however I was unaware that Blue Peak had gone under.Care to enlighten us on this developement?
                    Regards Roberto
                    He who laughs last......is the slowest thinker.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Monid View Post
                      There is no forum rule regarding 'negative thinking' there is regarding making negative anonymous comments about an individual or business. This is a rule that came from and is supported by the propertytalk community to allow people to assess whether a complaint is being made in good faith, or simply an attack to discredit for other reasons.

                      Really it just weakens your arguments (some of which I agree with) when you exaggerate so much.

                      Cheers
                      David Hunter
                      Hi David
                      Does this mean that negative comments made without being anonymous are ok?

                      I ask because I have perhaps made a negative comment or two about RM and I would not want to break the PT rules, however It is pretty obvious who I am.
                      P.s Never was nor will I be a supporter of RM

                      cheers

                      Terry

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        This is obviously a property forum. I appreciate that when posting.

                        But, don't you think every investment sector goes through bullish and bearish phases, and that a good forum discussing any sector, should openly discuss the bull phases and the bear phases.

                        After all, isn't the group wish that everyone does well, and everyone helps everyone else. That means not just helping people to invest at good times, but also warning people about potential bad times and risks.

                        I have heard of property investment forums that simply ban anyone who posts anything negative towards property investment or investment prospects.
                        IMO that is irresponsible. I'm glad this forum is not one of those.

                        IMO property has been a good investment. IMO it is not a good investment now. But, IMO it will be a good or at least reasonable investment some time in the future.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Vichy Advertising?

                          Hi Monid, you say:

                          "I'm not greatly convinced that you have got the four biggest RM critics there PM ... and I had thought I was fairly critical myself."

                          Perhaps not. I said arguably.

                          Anyway, your self promotion reminded me of a story by the great Charles de Gaulle.

                          He was forced by the Americans to deal with the Vichy commander. This Vichy commander was keen to impress Mr de Gaulle, so on introduction, immediately launched into a very long, verbose and convoluted story about how he had escaped a German prisoner of war camp.

                          Mr de Gaulle simply stood impassive, paused for a few moments, and then replied along the lines of "I would be most interested in the story of how you got captured in the first place."
                          Perhaps Mr de Gaulle's response was a little short, but I suppose that he was dealing with a guy who was Vichy, so had collaborated with the Nazis. Vichy France may not have liked German rule, but they still promoted the the Nazi cause. I suppose there was revenue to be had from doing this, plus of course they feared what would happen if they didn't collaborate.

                          But is fear a valid excuse? Who would not hold all the Vichy members responsible for their actions? Of course, some Vichy members collaborated more than others - some Vichy even openly voiced their distaste for the Nazis - but perhaps in the end an unwilling collaborator is still a collaborator?

                          Anyway, returning to your list, perhaps Mr Ayani and Mr Newland see the banning of the legendary group of four RM dissenters closer to my terms than yours? In fact, you can read a set of posts by PeterEmpower where he arguably implied this. Alas, you have a habit of being able to rationalise away any circumstances or facts that get in way of how you would like things to be, rather than how they are.

                          As for Superdad, he seems like a nice guy, and I doubt he ever managed to upset RM as much as say Weasel Driver did recently, with the classic "outing".

                          Enuff!
                          *poormastery*
                          Last edited by cube; 29-07-2008, 10:06 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            poormastery

                            Thanks chief!

                            This Taupo Tiger's post was one of the most useful I've ever read, and your comments have helped me finally formulate a far clearer-cut picture of what's been going on here.

                            I thought the seminar crowd was guilty of nothing more than a slightly linear, expensive and partisan way of thinking in their commendable quest for personal fortune through real estate investment and operations.

                            Now I am becoming convinced that nothing short of cultish brain-washing goes on out there, and that the parallels with extreme left and right wing political parties founded on personality cults as well as bona fide aggressive and vengeful religious cults are well founded and surprisingly reasonable.

                            I wouldn't take what Monid and PT have done anywhere close too personal. I think it's entirely clear what his sympathies are. He probably just finds it very regrettable that you and the missing members of your team didn't find a way to express what you had to say a bit more eloquently and safely from a purely legal point of view.

                            As for Taupo Tiger's ramblings, I hardly enjoy analysing the contents of a fresh landfill, so instead I'll just provide a paragraph from Wikipedia's article on the sociological basis of witch-hunt:

                            "Some sociologists have attributed the occurrence of witchhunts to the prevalent human tendency to blame unexplainable occurrences on someone or something familiar. For example, Europe relied heavily upon agriculture during the period of the witch hunts; if there were large scale crop failures, the consequences would very likely be disastrous. Crop failures often correlated with the occurrence of witchhunts, leading some sociologists to suggest that communities often took out their anger about a lack of food on community members who were unpopular (witches.) This can be paralleled in more recent examples such as the Nazi use of anti-semitism to apportion blame for economic problems. A perception of moral righteousness, by the community, is a necessary element that enables rationalization. This, however, is only one element in a complex tapestry of factors leading to the events in question."

                            And Baron, it's "textbook Schadenfreude". Your textbook should, at least in theory, know how to spell it correctly. You psychologist, you!
                            Last edited by 67910241; 29-07-2008, 01:52 PM. Reason: minor add'n

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              *poormastery* said:
                              As for Superdad, he seems like a nice guy, and I doubt he ever managed to upset RM as much as say Weasel Driver did recently, with the classic "outing".


                              For the record Mr Jones is not gay and has never been outed in that way. Not that theres anything wrong with that.

                              Comment

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