New KIWI SAVER tax ..was it a grab?

[McDuck]

^^ isn't there going to be a mass exodus of young kiwis from our fine country in the coming years? Who's going to take over their jobs? We need people!
....
Donna

Yup.
Young people want to see the world.
Funny to think it had its origins in Victorian England,
Where the rich would go on their " Grand Tour,
and try to meet the great thinkers of the time.
Voltaire for example.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Tour

I really don't know enough about the details of every profession to comment upon need.
I can tell you that young nurses do amazing work,
and get a hard time from the older nurses, the doctors and the hospital boards.
Lucky some people have a imbedded instinct for caring.

In my ideal world, immigration would be run like clockwork.
With daily data collected and considered .
And the numbers being changed every week.
Like a much more granular and regular OCR.
Call it a WIIP, weekly immigration intake profile.

Once a month " wranglers" would visit each new immigrant to see how they are doing.
Kind of like a really late Plunket.

And, only people born in NZ could be wranglers,
And a university degree would be essential in most.
To stop specific groups from playing the system.
(You know who you are).

Then once a year after the first year another detailed visit and check., kind of like a car servicing.
That data collected and used to adjust the intake.

I'd be mostly interested to see if they were doing what they said they were,
and what the pay was.
Also how well integrated they were.
Yes, you bring in any living thing and you need to maintain it.
Even just getting a new plant for the garden is a lifelong care effort.

I'd do my best to create ways for people to work here and train here for five year blocks.
But not to stay here forever.
Mostly because any kids get displaced, disassociated,
and the work ethic is removed once the kids grow up in the NZ schools.
"Anchoring" in an expectation sense.

At the moment, I can tell you that Corporates are still shafting the system,
by giving non essential people jobs and access to NZ's free public goods -
just because they are mates or married to mates.
The other reason is to get cheaper workers and to avoid paying for training.
(And we know how this is destroying and overloading local infrastructure).

Also that old age nurses are different from hospital nurses, and the two need to be considered separately
. Not sure how though.





but... this is off topic.

There were other parts to that GST on banks ( who provide Kiwi Saver services) bill ...

They often do that.
Bury all sorts of other interesting, vaguely related legislation together in one bill.
Sneaky buggers.

[Perry]

Sometime back, I was told of a potential reason for the limited influx. Supposedly, a condition was paying $11k for a 'cultural cringe' course. Oops - sorry: cultural sensitivity. Quite a disincentive, I suspect.

[donna]

^^ isn't there going to be a mass exodus of young kiwis from our fine country in the coming years? Who's going to take over their jobs? We need people!

Let's look at nurses.....

Back in June we needed 4000 nurses. 150 nurses came in - in May and June and the minister said numbers were similar for July - yay! Well done at this rate it will only take us 2 YEARS, and as we know, we will never have enough nurses.

Only 9 nurses applied to come here on the new visa. While we desperately need nurses (we have hundreds fewer nurses per 100K people than Australia), the profession is not listed as tier one, i.e. straight to residency and Mr. Little says there are no plans to add it.

cheers,

Donna

[McDuck]

Pseudo numbers? Your the one basing your theory on a a couple of taxi drivers.

NZ statistics prove my numbers.

And what do you call and how do you judge who is an
immigrant?

Is a Chinese kiwi who has a family line here since the late 1800 an immigrant? and a pom who migrated here in the 1960s a kiwi?

One shouldn't assume or judge so easily.

Your thinking is so vague and messy that the job of bringing it into some semblance of order is depressingly daunting.
And like my opinion on immigrants, wonderful, just not a problem created by me and way too costly to want to solve.

But I'll do you the respect of answering your questions.

I don't think of classing people as immigrants.
For the purpose of this discussion, I was talking about the people who have been relocated from their country of birth recently.

90% of " Poms" as you call them are brilliant. funny, smart, interesting. I can also think of two particularly stupid annoying ones, curiously from the same part of England, but I met them two decades apart. Just selfish toxic people.


As for Chinese people..
I'm a bit biased here.

I still have the warmest memory of getting a free apple from our local fruit shop.
I used to walk past a small simple fruit and veggie shop on the way to school every day.

And every day I used to wave to the shopkeeper and say, Hi Mr. Ying (not his real name).
He was a dark skinned wrinkly worn out looking old man, but always responded with a uneven toothed smile and a wave.

One day I was walking home with a new school friend, and the new kid said something racist to Mr. Ying.
I looked at my hew friend and said " Hey don't do that, he's our friend my Ying, he's nice".
The kid wasn't too put out, he was just trying to be funny by mimicking what he saw on .

The next day Mr Ying called me in and gave me a nice shiny red apple.
I couldn't figure out why.
I had totally forgotten about the moment, I haven't really though about it in all these years.

That contrasts with the most condescending Chinese person I have ever met.
Who to give him his dues, was pretty driven and capable.
Totally racist, thought all people with coloured skin were crooks.
Pulled me over quietly and asked me if I noticed that every dark skinned person was a criminal.
I jut said, you get good and bad in every culture.
Made his mother in law watch the servicing of any broken household item,
just in case some parts were stolen.
It was so tragic that it was funny. That mother in law was formidable.
He was a mean and verdictive person, if you got on his wrong side.
If you could 501 people for being A-holes, he'd be gone.


Anyhow, back to this squashed GST on Kiwi saver bill.
Apparently it had lots more important stuff in there.

[Jeffa]

Pseudo numbers? Your the one basing your theory on a a couple of taxi drivers.

NZ statistics prove my numbers.

And what do you call and how do you judge who is an
immigrant?

Is a Chinese kiwi who has a family line here since the late 1800 an immigrant? and a pom who migrated here in the 1960s a kiwi?

One shouldn't assume or judge so easily.

[McDuck]

Sure.

Immigration done badly is a total disatser .. immigration done well is a great thing.

I don't agree with your simplictic appreciation of the matter.
Or the psudo numbers you have used to back up unlikley outcomes.

Just go down to a hospital waiting room.
See who is doing the work, and who is being worked on.

And ask yourself,
could tighter immigration have stopped this whole loop of activity?
Or at least have it occur in the country of origin of the people involved.

Sure there would be less tax.. but also lower running costs.

And you, (a person born in New Zealand) would not have to wait in line.

I'm still drawn back to a late summers day in 2019.
Standing at the lower end of Shortland street Auckland.
A middle eastern taxi driver, in a run down silver taxi, was yelling at another middle eastern taxi driver.
They were fighting for parking.
They had parked on the footpath as part of their waiting plan.
Another recent immigrant was dressed as a parking warden giving them both tickets.
All I got out of it was a blocked footpath, a lot of swearing in another language,
and a feeling of utter dismay at the waste of energy and time.
It wasn't working for anyone.

Could this whole loop of activity have been avoided by tighter immigration policy?

No one to park on the footpath, no one to yell at them, no one to give them a ticket. No one to put a magnetic sign on a junk heap of a imported car.
Just empty space and silence to walk through.
Ahhhh.
If I wanted a taxi I could walk over to the real taxi rank.

And believe me when I say that this is just the tip of the iceberg.
I could give you countless instances of usless loops of activity I have witnessed, all caused by immigration policy.

Just as hiring the wrong employee can bankrupt a perectly profitable company, mismatched or excessive immigration can kill a country.

And we've been doing that for so many years that we still need to work through the issues.. before adding to them..
Also, you can't give a immigrant person redundancy.. (well the Auzzies are trying with 501's)..


If your really worried about who will do the work,
just pick up a spade and go and give your local builders a hand.
No need to charge them,
just do it for the good of the economy.

[Jeffa]

Who will stop teaching plumbers, just to grab a quick buck teaching English.

I've seen all this happen up close and in person.

I ask myself, how many 2 dollar shops do we need?
Does this improve a community?
Or is it a criteria meeting con by an immigrant person.

There is 2 jobs for every unemployed person today.

39 to 65 are beginning to outnumber 0 to 39 year Olds

New Zealand is not only aging its becoming less productive

I agree you should be teaching a young apprentice plumbing, but if she's the only plumber to service 25,000 houses you have a serious problem.

If New Zealand doesn't increase its population by the time Gen Y retires or possibly even Gen X, there will be more people retired than working.

Who will maintain infrastructure?, who will replace retiring workers in the health sector? Pay taxes? You think it's bad trying to get a builder now, you ain't seen nothing yet.

Ever been to a developing country McDuck? Roads deteriorating, 70s style hospitals, only the wealthy can afford private modern medical health care.

Immigration is and will be the answer to New Zealand keeping its status as a first world country, and the pension.

[donna]

McDuck, I was responding to Jeffa’s post above mine.

[Perry]

Reading the ACT e-newsletter . . . (always good for a laugh)

It was not a tax on Kiwisaver contributions or balances. The only change was applying it to Kiwisaver fund managers. Doing so might collect an additional $225 million in 2026, according to Inland Revenue.

And where would that $225M come from? Thin air, cACT seems to think, as it said it would make no difference to Kiwisaver contributions or balances.

You what?

NZ is all-but-lost.

[Perry]

^^ Aussie has raised its immigration take to nearly 110K per year due to a lack of workers. What’s our Govt doing - burying their heads in the sand.

They first have to find their heads.
Are they looking in the right place?
It's dark and smelly, there.

[McDuck]

^^ Aussie has raised its immigration take to nearly 110K per year due to a lack of workers. What’s our Govt doing - burying their heads in the sand.

cheers
Donna

This isn't really about immigration, more the Kiwi Saver Fee GST idea.

Immigration can be a good thing or a bad thing, dependent on all sorts of factors.

To be fair to immigrants, you really need to build infrastructure to match the numbers.
And the long calculation may show it to be a net financial loss.

To be fair to the existing societal members,
you need to make sure that the immigrants don't cause trouble,
are useful.. with qualification being compatible with our systems,
and don't take up places at top schools,
distort housing markets or destroy learning institutions..
Who will stop teaching plumbers, just to grab a quick buck teaching English.

I've seen all this happen up close and in person.

I ask myself, how many 2 dollar shops do we need?
Does this improve a community?
Or is it a criteria meeting con by an immigrant person.

This is just a surface look. There are many more ideological and generational issues that arise.
Some so severe that even a great wads of cash will not fix.


Donna, are you sure you've thought this through?

[donna]

^^ Aussie has raised its immigration take to nearly 110K per year due to a lack of workers. What’s our Govt doing - burying their heads in the sand.

cheers
Donna

[Jeffa]

Perhaps they were bringing this tax in discreetly so if you didn't notice, the shortfall in your retirement could lead to the ruling government in the future may squeeze another 5 or 10 years out of your tax slave I mean productive working life,
We do have a worker shortage because of the under lying anti immigration sentiment in NZ.

[Frezzinghot]

So the government promote to its tax slave workers to join KiwiSaver, just so they can tax you on the management of it. Brilliant!

[McDuck]

All that lovely Dosh$ just sitting there.
The commie government can't wait to steal it.
Think of all the working groups it would fund!

While opportunism and self interest feature strongly in the play book of many political figures...
I'm not confident that this was the case here.