Dunne dismisses tax haven suggestions

[speights boy]

Foreign trusts in IRD sights

The Inland Revenue Department is taking aim at the use of New Zealand trusts by foreigners to shield their income and assets from tax in their own countries following pressure from its overseas counterparts, the Business Herald understands.

Dickeson said tax advisers had often observed there was a cottage industry in New Zealand around providing foreign trust services.

"That could just be eliminated by the minister's signature, just something going through Parliament getting rid of the tax advantages to foreigners through the foreign trust regime, so there might be some people a little bit nervous about that."

"There is significant potential for them to be used as major tax avoidance techniques in other jurisdictions."

However, there hadn't been any major work to date to assess the extent of such activity.

"It's almost been as if it's a question that's too hard to ask, we've never collected the information adequately on who the settlors are for foreign trusts."

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11365060

[speights boy]

Starbucks opens negotiations with HMRC to start paying more UK tax

Figures of how much it could pay have not been made available but it would be likely to be in the tens of millions of pounds a year. Last year Starbucks made £398m in revenues and paid no tax.

The company has told HMRC that it will change the way it offsets payments it makes to Dutch and Swiss divisions of the company, meaning it will create a profit in the UK and therefore pay tax.

Up until now, Starbucks has insisted that its UK business does not make a profit because of the high rents it pays for its shops.

www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/9716155/Starbucks-opens-negotiations-with-HMRC-to-start-paying-more-UK-tax.html

[Perry]

Spotlight On Tech Company Tax Bills
29 November 2012

Labour is calling on the Government to crack down on tax avoidance by
multinational technology companies, saying Facebook's meagre tax bill
made "a mockery of Peter Dunne's refusal to consider closing tax
loopholes". "Facebook only paid $14,497 tax in New Zealand last year.
The year before it was $5238. For a company that has 2.2 million users
in New Zealand and makes billions worldwide, that's barely
believable," Labour revenue spokesman David Clark said. He said
Facebook appeared to be using an accounting technique called the
"double Irish" to funnel income to Ireland and take advantage of its
low 12.5 per cent corporate tax rate.

"Revenue Minister Peter Dunne calls that 'legitimate tax avoidance'. I
call that a rort," Clark said. He said the Government should follow
Australia and Europe by bringing in laws "to clamp down on this
behaviour". "For Peter Dunne to wash his hands of this issue is simply
not good enough. It's not just Facebook that funnels revenue through
its low-tax Irish counterpart. Google New Zealand does it too," he said.

[speights boy]

Hi Essence

A good analogy.
Yes knowledge is interesting, and if important enough can be powerful.
Agreed, inertia is like rust, it's always there.

At the top end of the range we have Royal Commissions and hugely important issues such as Pike River and CTV.
The Pike River report is the most damning report published for a very long time.
As a direct result, the Govt is considering the introduction of a charge of corporate manslaughter in our laws.

Back to 60 minutes.
Their programme last sunday included an item about the 9 deaths at Fox Glacier on the same day as the first ChCh earthquake.
The interview with the head of the regulator in charge of that industry was interesting.

I enjoy these programmes as a lot of people are too busy or not interested or -as you say- simply unaware.

Do they have any effect.
Actually we never know do we.
But if the boss of the boss at the focus has lots of other pressures, then they just may send the edict down the line.
"I don't need this festering....get it sorted"

Yes , it may take a decade, but as you said earlier....it's still better than living in a dictatorship.
When China has such a report ( such as the recent NY Times investigative article on family billions of the Premier) they blocked internet access.

There was a disturbing report recently on possible abuse of the OIA process when parents asked for information regarding the closing of their schools in ChCh.
It is healthy we have plenty of people chip chipping away.

Whale Oil (the most read blogger in NZ) is the new editor of the Truth.
Me thinks there will be some people out there who will keep a close eye on the front page every week.

[essence]

Hey SB

I use this analogy.

A person is walking around with a huge zit on their face. Everyone stares at them, some may even point. The person believes that they're doing ok and what people are looking/pointing at, is that they're attractive (see self-delusion works).

Until someone gives them a mirror.

Then the person realises that they've got a big zit THAT EVERYONE CAN SEE and something needs to be done to fix it.

Now use that for the Government (and being generous of heart, as I am), assume that the Government really didn't know that the tax laws were flawed. That is until the investigative reporters pointed it out to them.

The Government now knows what public has seen. It's not good PR for the Government.

The Government will do something about it but not in a hurry though. They'll drag their feet as much as they can, knowing that people's memories are short and will hopefully forget the TV programme very shortly.

Remember successive Governments have known about this for many (20+?) years and have done nothing about it. They've had more than enough time to change the law. There is no political will to do so. Maybe you should be thinking beyond this law and wonder why. What are the second agendas that the Governments are running? (Conspiracy theories anyone!!)

You watched a programme this month and have got all heated under the collar about it. Before this programme, you lived in ignorance and bliss about this law.

Isn't knowledge interesting?

[muppet]

They'll never learn. They have no common sense.

That's not all they don't have.
They also have no b...... to try to change the system either.

[Perry]

I confess to not following such things. A few "heads have rolled"
but the corporate culture malaise may well linger on. Reminiscent
of parliament's FEC investigation of the IRD over the hapless Willis'.

In response to stinging criticism, the IRD commissioner (or deputy)
intoned (with a straight face) that he would change the IRD culture.

He did indeed do that.

It's now worse.

From close family experience, I can tell you this true tale.

Someone was required (by ACC) to fly out-of-town for a specialist
appointment. A claim was put in for the travel to the nearest airport
plus the parking change. About $22, as I dimply recall. ACC declined
to pay, but offered taxi chits for the next such event.

That cost was over $200. The ACC claimant tried to get them to
pay the $22 for parking and own vehicle use, but to no avail. That's
an example of crazy corporate culture.

Maybe the politicians are to blame?

Anyway, we stray off topic, somewhat. With tax haven assertions
and the like, one should keep in mind that rules are for the guidance
of the wise and the obeisance of fools. The rules coming out of
the drone house are likely measured by the kilogram, rather than
by the clause.

They'll never learn. They have no common sense.

[speights boy]

Could be - doesn't it lose/leak a little less private in-
formation, these days?

Yes, and board members gone including the chairman & CEO.
My point was, 60 minutes provided a lot of the investigation in the lead up to those events.

If you missed it, it's well worth watching TV3's 60 Minutes investigation into the Bronwyn Pullar's ACC scandal: The Eye of the Storm.
While it is a sympathetic account of Pullar's story the programme scores some damning blows against ACC, including it's CEO and Chair.
Pullar projects herself as a genuine whistleblower, a former powerbroker and highflyer who finds herself at the mercy of a powerful corporation and is fighting back against their bullying - not just for herself, but on behalf all of ACC's clients.
Motivations are almost impossible to prove but the evidence, as the police found, doesn't support the accusations ACC has thrown at her.

Political round-up: ACC board chief had to go

www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10812500

[Perry]

Micro-Management By Any Other Name . . .

Could be - doesn't it lose/leak a little less private in-
formation, these days?

Or is it just that WINZ has it pipped at the post?

ACC was opened to competition years back. The
next government closed off that option. Then the
next . . .

All swings & roundabouts; on-again, off-again.

Besides, ACC itself epitomises micro-management.
Are you old enough to recall workers' compensation?
"Off on compo" was the phrase. Way back then,
there was a modest element of proof involved, if
I recall correctly.

Then no-fault, no one's to blame socialism arrived.
I.e. No claim involved blame. Well, in theory. Now,
it's open slather, malingerers-take-all.

But it's not a one-size-fits all circumstance.

[speights boy]

It now seems to be the goal of most governments is to micro-manage every
aspect of every citizen's life .......

The ACC been through any changes recently?

[Perry]

My reactions so far... (1) reporters sensationalising information that's been around for ages,
(2) so what? It's not like the politicians are going to do anything about it.

So, replace these 60 minutes type programmes with more cooking shows and talent
quests then...that is what you want?

Who suggested that? Seems to be your idea - putting words into someone else's mouth,
so to speak.

OK, so the info has been around for ages....it's about time it was more widely publicised and
some more pressure put on the politicians to make it harder to do. Will it make a difference.....
probably not any time soon, but eventually perhaps.

Since when is that a reason to not even try.

It may not need a reason. Rather, it may be that the effort is better directed
elsewhere. How's that line go?

I need the patience to endure what cannot be changed;
The fortitude to change what can be changed;
And the wisdom to know one from the other.

Some people are OK doing things that aren't important. Like watching TV -
cooking or unreality gigs or what ever other inane garbage is being served
up to titillate jaded viewers and tired advertisers.

PIs get on with their businesses as best they can, often under the most
trying of circumstances - like the RTA and some asinine edict that buildings
don't depreciate. One could try to change the sawdust in the Wellington
woodenhead's cranial cavities, but that seems like a recipe for frustration.

It now seems to be the goal of most governments is to micro-manage every
aspect of every citizen's life and property. The Search & Surveillance Act and
the TPPA seem to me like more cogent and compelling things to worry about.

Which then begs the question: can anything be done about them?
As governments get increasingly distant from those who elected them,
probably not.

[speights boy]

. My reactions so far... (1) reporters sensationalising information that's been around for ages,.. (2) so what? It's not like the politicians are going to do anything about it.

So, replace these 60 minutes type programmes with more cooking shows and talent quests then...that is what you want?
Isn't it the job of the investigative journalist to raise a few rocks....all at a time slot where this info would be a surprise to a lot of people.

What if other programmes highlight deficiencies in organisations that may have contributed to loss of life?

Ok, so the info has been around for ages....it's about time it was more widely publicised and some more pressure put on the politicians to make it harder to do.
Will it make a difference.....probably not any time soon, but eventually perhaps.
Since when is that a reason to not even try.

[essence]

Thanks Glizzle (and Perry!), I've finally managed to connect to NZ news!! Wu-hu!!

I'm a bit pressed for time atm, and have only managed to watch the first 5(?) minutes of the vid. My reactions so far... (1) reporters sensationalising information that's been around for ages,.. (2) so what? It's not like the politicians are going to do anything about it.

YES, NZ is being used as a Tax Haven.
YES, billions of $'s are being "hidden" here.

But guess what?!. It's NOT illegal.

That's my point.

This was a bad law, drafted back in the 1980's by Roger Douglas et al. The Foreign Trusts didn't even need to be registered until 2006!! FFS!!

Do I like the law? No.
Is it moral? Absolutely not.
Should something be done about it? IMHO, absolutely. Will the politicians?? Probably not.

My point that I made from the beginning - One MUST pay the exact amount of tax required BY LAW. If the laws of the country involved are flawed, that is not the problem of the tax payer. That is the problem of the Government of that country - whether that is NZ or any other country.

If the population of that country sees this as being unfair, then if the country is a democratic one, then the populace can use their democratic right and vote to change the politicians.

If the country is not democratic, you've got bigger problems than to worry about a tax law.

[Glizzle]

Called a proxy just google it and you get the idea.

http://www.newzealandproxy.com/

[Maccachic]

Hi SB

Sorry for the delay in responding, I missed Cube's link to the video. Unfortunately no matter how I try, I can't seem to get Cube's link to work. I've tried it from several different angles, but no joy.

I can get print media articles but videos are screened. I couldn't even watch TVNZ reporting of NZ'ers in the Olympic Games!!! *sigh*

Speak to a techie there is a website/program you can use which changes your IP location so you can access Country restricted sites. Sorry I can't be more help but I haven't used it myself.