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  • Dunne dismisses tax haven suggestions

    From NZ Herald 8/10/12

    Revenue Minister Peter Dunne is dismissing a suggestion New Zealand is a tax haven after criticism over his "legitimate tax avoidance" comments.

    In an interview aired by 60 Minutes yesterday about foreign trusts, Mr Dunne said the term tax haven was an exaggeration because it implied illegal tax evasion rather than "legitimate tax avoidance".

    "There's nothing sinister about that - minimising one's tax has always been within the law, that's the difference between avoidance and evasion," he said.

    The comments sparked criticism, with Green Party co-leader Russel Norman labelling them "astounding".

    "The tax system is being undermined by the minister in charge of it," he said.

    Prime Minister John Key was today unconcerned by Mr Dunne's comments.

    He had not seen the 60 Minutes interview but Mr Dunne would have been using "the absolutely correct technical terms", he said.

    "Tax evasion is completely against the law. Tax avoidance means that it's a responsibility of your accountant to actually look to minimise your tax as best you can within the bounds of the law."
    I have been trying to get people to understand that for YEEEEAAAAARRRS and still they don't get it!!! One must ALWAYS pay the correct amount of tax. No more and no less. That is exactly what is required BY LAW.

    Mr Key said servicing foreign trusts in New Zealand was a strong and legitimate business that employed a lot of professionals and added to the New Zealand economy.

    "It's a very sensible place to house a trust."

    Mr Dunne today dismissed the idea that New Zealand was a tax haven for foreign trusts.

    "The key identifying characteristics of tax havens are secrecy and lack of transparency. Those are simply not factors here in New Zealand. Our legislation for taxing trusts is fully transparent."

    He also announced that New Zealand would sign a multilateral convention on tax assistance later this month.

    The Convention on Mutual Administration Assistance in Tax Matters will give Inland Revenue the ability to request help from other tax authorities in detecting and preventing tax evasion, and collecting outstanding tax debts.

    "This is an important step and consistent with New Zealand's approach to tax matters, and frankly, makes a mockery of tax haven assertions," Mr Dunne said.

    New Zealand had a wide network of tax treaty partners, including 37 double tax agreements and a growing network of tax information exchange agreements.

    Dr Norman has called for more transparency of the roughly 8000 foreign trusts in New Zealand, which are set up with foreign income by non-residents but managed in New Zealand.

    The trusts must be registered with Inland Revenue, but are not required to pay tax and their ownership is effectively anonymous.

    "New Zealand's foreign trusts hide billions of dollars of assets and should be broken open to help stop the global tax evasion industry," he said.

    Labour's revenue spokesman David Clark said Mr Dunne was far too relaxed and hands-off about the wealthy paying their fair share.
    The very wealthy are paying far more tax overall than most people pay in a year. They hire extremely expensive lawyers and accountants to make sure that they comply with the law. What do Labour want?? That all the rich move their income overseas? If the income is overseas THERE WILL BE NO TAX ON THAT INCOME AT ALL!! FOR NEW ZEALAND.

    End of rant.
    Patience is a virtue.

  • #2
    Sounds as if Labour are as wacky as the Greens.
    "There's one way to find out if a man is honest-ask him. If he says 'yes,' you know he is a crook." Groucho Marx

    Comment


    • #3
      essence

      Did you see the original programme ?

      Comment


      • #4
        Not I'm in NZ. Please provide the link so I can watch it.
        Patience is a virtue.

        Comment


        • #5
          Didn't seem to post as a link.
          ondemandtv3.co.nz.......shows....60 minutes.....Treasure Islands ......that will find it
          Guyon Espiner was the front man.
          Last edited by speights boy; 13-10-2012, 12:21 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            DFTBA

            Comment


            • #7
              essence

              Assuming you have now watched the programme; what did you make of it all?

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi SB

                Sorry for the delay in responding, I missed Cube's link to the video. Unfortunately no matter how I try, I can't seem to get Cube's link to work. I've tried it from several different angles, but no joy.

                I can get print media articles but videos are screened. I couldn't even watch TVNZ reporting of NZ'ers in the Olympic Games!!! *sigh*
                Patience is a virtue.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Finally.
                  The MSM following up on the issues raised in the 60 Minutes programme.

                  Essence; this is why I had asked if you had seen the programme.
                  I think a very different focus than that of your original post.

                  Chris Barton: Taxation's black hole

                  For foreigners who want to make their taxes disappear, New Zealand can be an attractive destination. Chris Barton explains.

                  www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10844389

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I found these pieces rather enigmatic:
                    Craig Elliffe, professor of Taxation Law and Policy at Auckland
                    University Business School, says this country's foreign trust
                    structure effectively provides a vehicle for foreigners not to pay tax
                    and therefore, in a broad sense, we are a tax haven. To stop New
                    Zealanders hiding their assets and income in overseas trusts to avoid
                    paying tax, the government adopted a somewhat unique approach. It
                    selected the residence of a trust's "settlor" as the basis for
                    taxation. That is, the person who gives or "settles" property on a
                    trustee to hold under the terms of a trust deed for a group of
                    beneficiaries. In other words, if the settlor was a New Zealand
                    resident, he or she would pay New Zealand tax.
                    Tax on what?

                    While the mechanism makes it difficult for New Zealanders to squirrel
                    away their assets offshore, there is a flipside: settlors who live
                    outside New Zealand, who settle trusts with New Zealand trustees, are
                    exempt from New Zealand taxes. For foreign settlors that means a New
                    Zealand trust, its trustees, trust assets and beneficiaries don't pay
                    tax here. "So on that sort of principled basis the regime does comprehensively
                    tax New Zealanders who set up foreign trusts. And it provides for the
                    converse - foreigners who set up New Zealand trusts are not subject to
                    [New Zealand] tax."
                    Tax on what? And what would be a NZ tax on Trust assets?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by essence View Post
                      Hi SB

                      Sorry for the delay in responding, I missed Cube's link to the video. Unfortunately no matter how I try, I can't seem to get Cube's link to work. I've tried it from several different angles, but no joy.

                      I can get print media articles but videos are screened. I couldn't even watch TVNZ reporting of NZ'ers in the Olympic Games!!! *sigh*
                      Speak to a techie there is a website/program you can use which changes your IP location so you can access Country restricted sites. Sorry I can't be more help but I haven't used it myself.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Called a proxy just google it and you get the idea.

                        Last edited by Perry; 05-11-2012, 03:38 PM. Reason: fixed typo

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Thanks Glizzle (and Perry!), I've finally managed to connect to NZ news!! Wu-hu!!

                          I'm a bit pressed for time atm, and have only managed to watch the first 5(?) minutes of the vid. My reactions so far... (1) reporters sensationalising information that's been around for ages,.. (2) so what? It's not like the politicians are going to do anything about it.

                          YES, NZ is being used as a Tax Haven.
                          YES, billions of $'s are being "hidden" here.

                          But guess what?!. It's NOT illegal.

                          That's my point.

                          This was a bad law, drafted back in the 1980's by Roger Douglas et al. The Foreign Trusts didn't even need to be registered until 2006!! FFS!!

                          Do I like the law? No.
                          Is it moral? Absolutely not.
                          Should something be done about it? IMHO, absolutely. Will the politicians?? Probably not.

                          My point that I made from the beginning - One MUST pay the exact amount of tax required BY LAW. If the laws of the country involved are flawed, that is not the problem of the tax payer. That is the problem of the Government of that country - whether that is NZ or any other country.

                          If the population of that country sees this as being unfair, then if the country is a democratic one, then the populace can use their democratic right and vote to change the politicians.

                          If the country is not democratic, you've got bigger problems than to worry about a tax law.
                          Patience is a virtue.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by essence View Post
                            . My reactions so far... (1) reporters sensationalising information that's been around for ages,.. (2) so what? It's not like the politicians are going to do anything about it.
                            So, replace these 60 minutes type programmes with more cooking shows and talent quests then...that is what you want?
                            Isn't it the job of the investigative journalist to raise a few rocks....all at a time slot where this info would be a surprise to a lot of people.

                            What if other programmes highlight deficiencies in organisations that may have contributed to loss of life?

                            Ok, so the info has been around for ages....it's about time it was more widely publicised and some more pressure put on the politicians to make it harder to do.
                            Will it make a difference.....probably not any time soon, but eventually perhaps.
                            Since when is that a reason to not even try.
                            Last edited by speights boy; 06-11-2012, 07:39 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by essence View Post
                              My reactions so far... (1) reporters sensationalising information that's been around for ages,
                              (2) so what? It's not like the politicians are going to do anything about it.
                              Originally posted by speights boy View Post
                              So, replace these 60 minutes type programmes with more cooking shows and talent
                              quests then...that is what you want?
                              Who suggested that? Seems to be your idea - putting words into someone else's mouth,
                              so to speak.

                              Originally posted by essence View Post
                              OK, so the info has been around for ages....it's about time it was more widely publicised and
                              some more pressure put on the politicians to make it harder to do. Will it make a difference.....
                              probably not any time soon, but eventually perhaps.
                              Originally posted by speights boy View Post
                              Since when is that a reason to not even try.
                              It may not need a reason. Rather, it may be that the effort is better directed
                              elsewhere. How's that line go?

                              I need the patience to endure what cannot be changed;
                              The fortitude to change what can be changed;
                              And the wisdom to know one from the other.


                              Some people are OK doing things that aren't important. Like watching TV -
                              cooking or unreality gigs or what ever other inane garbage is being served
                              up to titillate jaded viewers and tired advertisers.

                              PIs get on with their businesses as best they can, often under the most
                              trying of circumstances - like the RTA and some asinine edict that buildings
                              don't depreciate. One could try to change the sawdust in the Wellington
                              woodenhead's cranial cavities, but that seems like a recipe for frustration.

                              It now seems to be the goal of most governments is to micro-manage every
                              aspect of every citizen's life and property. The Search & Surveillance Act and
                              the TPPA seem to me like more cogent and compelling things to worry about.

                              Which then begs the question: can anything be done about them?
                              As governments get increasingly distant from those who elected them,
                              probably not.

                              Comment

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