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An open letter to Richmastery.

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  • An open letter to Richmastery.

    Dear Richmastery,

    I know that you cop a bit of flak on this forum, especially from members like me. Perhaps you could go someway to restoring your good name by providing a clear answer to the following question:

    Why is it that so many of your advertisements for your "hot property deals" are misleading?

    Take, as just one example, an add that I saw for the first time a few minutes ago.

    Originally posted by richmastery
    #1215 Gisbourne

    PRE-TAX and AFTER TAX POSITIVE potential !! And on top of that RECYCLE your deposit quickly!! SNAP UP This Cosmetically Distressed property could gain yo


    Investment Indicators Pre Negotiated Purchase Price $
    188,000


    Independent Market Value$
    235,000


    Rental Income (Per Week)$
    340


    Cash Flow After Tax (Per Annum)$
    1,865


    Investment Yield
    9.40%


    Immediate Equity $
    47,000


    Richmastery Fee (Incl. GST)$
    4,995

    Why, when I follow the link to the RevIQ report, does it turn out that the property is not CF+ive before tax. Indeed, it is CF-ive to the tune of $3200 PA. And this is assuming the $340 rent per week for the renovated house.

    Why, when I look at the RV, does it tell me that the house in its current state is valued at $190K, not $235K. Why does the purchase price turn out to be only $2K below valuation, not $47K as you advertise. Admit it: there is sweet FA "immediate" equity in this purchase.

    Why does the researcher's claim that the deposit can be recycled out of the equity in the property not take account of the fact that, by his own admission, between $10-15K needs to be spent on the property.

    Why is the investment yield advertised at 9.4%. This assumes a weekly rent of $340 against a purchase price of $188. But the researcher admits that $10-15K needs to be spent in order to achieve this rent. There is no way to achieve the advertised yield - so the advertised yield is not just misleading it is false.

    Why does the researcher claim that "This analysis assumes $12500 of renovation costs" when he neglects to take these costs into account when determining the yield or the equity on purchase?

    Please don't advise me to take up these issues with the particular property researcher, as you have done in the past. These are issues that you ought to be taking up with that person yourself. I submit that it is the misleading claims of researchers such as this person that give your organisation a bad name.

    Yours sincerely,

    Paul Flood.
    Last edited by SuperDad; 05-07-2006, 09:26 AM.

  • #2
    Paul, good on you for highlighting these concerns. There a re a lot of people who need to be aware you can't always take such information at face value.

    However you are going about it the wrong way. You've tried to engage RM here before, and it simply hasn't happened. It just degrades into a "beating the head against the wall" situation.

    If you genuinely believe RM are misleading the public then I suggest you do the following:

    1) print copies of all relevent material off their website (before it changes)
    2) talk to the property finder and ask them for answers to these questions
    3) post the answers you get here on PT so everyone can make their own informed decision
    4) If you still believe RM is engaging in misleading advertising then take it to the relevant authority.

    Ongoing arguments with RM here on PT are not going to fix the problem. Use the right channels and you'll have a lot more success.

    I admire your crusade to clean up this aspect of the industry. Do it through different channels and you'll be far more effective.

    Gerrard

    Comment


    • #3
      I still struggle with this Rv of 235 but you can buy for 188 stuff and therefore you are "creating" equity. Surely the property is really only valued at 188 because wouldnt the valuer change his report if he knew it could be bought for 188?

      Comment


      • #4
        Captaincrab,

        If you check the RV, you'll see that the actual property, as purchased, has a RV of $190K. The figure of $235K is post-reno - but the purchaser needs to spend between 10-15K to do the reno. So the "immediate" equity on purchase is $2K, not $47K as advertised. Further, even if the value does go to $235K after reno, the investor has spent 10-15K to create that equity - so there was never a prosepct of $47K on purchase.

        On another thread, RM suggested that a lot of the criticism levelled against them is by people who have not read all of the supplementary documentation for each deal. Well, I have read that documentation. It contradicts what is stated in the advertisement.

        Paul.

        Comment


        • #5
          Action

          Gentlemen,

          Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention.

          We have undertaken the following immediate action:

          1/ The Property in question has been removed from the web site this morning.

          2/ Richmastery Management have launched an investigation in to this matter with the Property Researcher concerned.

          Again, Richmastery Head Office thanks you for bringing this matter to our attention. Like you we are dedicated to providing the best service to our customers and accurate information to ensure they make informed decisions.

          Comment


          • #6
            Richmastery,

            Well done for taking action on this matter.

            Now, why did you not take similar action when I raised very similar concerns here: http://www.propertytalk.com/forum/sh...31&postcount=9 ?

            Paul.
            Last edited by SuperDad; 05-07-2006, 10:43 AM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Paul,

              Don't go moving the goal posts - you have brought a matter to their attention in an open letter. They have responded to that open letter.

              Then you re-visit an old issue. This does not achieve anything, and detracts from the generally constructive tone of the thread.

              cube
              DFTBA

              Comment


              • #8
                Cube,

                Sorry, but I don't see that I have changed the goal posts. The letter was introduced in the context of an ongoing discussion ("I know that you cop a bit of flak on this forum..."), and reference was also made to RM's handling of such issues in the past ("Please don't advise me to take up these issues with the particular property researcher, as you have done in the past"). Further, I am not revisiting an old issue - the issue is ongoing.

                I am as surprised as others, and also as pleased, to see that RM has taken decisive and positive action on this matter. But don't forget, RM are not the only ones who have copped flak on this forum. I have copped quite a bit of flak myself for raising questions about RM's deals and practices. On the thread that I provide a link to, I was berated by RM for not only having half of the facts (I was not told which half). I have been called a tyre-kicker by RHF - and yes, he did apologise. I have been accused of focussing on the negative by a few people, and for having a secret grudge against those who are out to make money in property.

                Please don't get me wrong - I'm not complaining. I'm just trying to explain why I would ask "Why the change in tack?" And, quite frankly, I think that I am entitled to ask this. I might not get an answer - but that's a different issue.

                Comment


                • #9
                  You obviously have a great brain and an enquiring mind Paul. Can I suggest you put some of that considerable talent into getting your own investing turbocharged and encouraging others. When I met you, you did not strike me as being negative or a "troublemaker" at all. So I am concerned for you that you seem to enjoy looking for ways to bring attention to negatives in another organisation. How does this benefit your head space and what sort of energy does it draw around you??

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Dean,

                    Thanks for your concern, but I'm fine, really. I can't help but say something when I see misleading and false claims being made, period. As I have explained elsewhere, to not say anything would to be untrue to my own values. I need to take action. I don't surround myself with negativity, although sometimes the focus of my postings might suggest otherwise. I do try my hardest to contribute in a positive and constructive fashion to others' postings, encouraging and helping where my limited experience allows me to do so.

                    I have been turbocharging my own investing as of late. This morning I was getting around the traps with my children, picking up supplies for the property I have just purchased. I bought 8 smoke alarms and underfloor insulation for the property, and got a carpet quote. This morning I have also booked in a time for a heatpump to be installed when we take possession. I have purchased the best smoke alarms recommended by the recent Consumer test - that way, I can sleep at night knowing that I have done the best I can to protect the tenants. They were 4 times as expensive as regular alarms, but I figure you can't put a price on human life. (Although watch me refuse to pay $10000 for a smoke alarm!)

                    On another positive note, I see that you are due to speak at the WPIA on Wednesday August 9, and that Donna Richardson is due to speak on October 11. I'm looking forward to both evenings!

                    Best,

                    Paul.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      For what its worth Dean, I don't believe that I'm ever critical unnecessarily. I put a lot of thought into my postings - if I'm negative, it is only because I judge it necessary. (Of course, my judgment is not infallible.)

                      I'm stepping back out of the crossfire now...

                      Paul.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Always remember your sense of adventure needs to be matched by your sense of humour

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Superdad (and pooomba),

                          Leaving aside the concept of keeping them honest.

                          I come from the school where challenging the claims of another is a very valid type of research. Where anyone claims to be an expert, I find a need to get them to prove it, not only to understand them, but also to build their knowledge.

                          Paul you are demonstrating an ability to look past the figures and challenging us (well at least me) to reconsider and reanalyse deals outside of printed face value...

                          For reference I gave up on the property alerts a long time ago, I just found the information wasn't worth the bird dog fee.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Richmastery,

                            I am able to fully substantiate the concerns raised in four of my five original questions, using your own material. Having had a much closer look at the full cash flow report, I now see that the property is CF+ive before tax, to the tune of $1089. Mind you, this is on borrowings of $188000, and total property expenses of $2151 (rates, insurance, maintenance). (Note that the valuation allows for $2500 for rates and insurance alone.) If you add the Researcher's own suggested $12500 to the purchase price of the property - which is necessary in order to generate the $340 rent per week - the pre-tax CF becomes $492. Still CF+ive, so I admit my error here. But remember, this is only one of my five questions. I have thoroughly re-examined my other four questions, and am confident they stand up.

                            Kindly yours,

                            Paul.
                            Last edited by Marcus; 07-07-2006, 06:53 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Paul
                              If they are allowing just $2151 for rates, insurance and maintance, then I wouldn't surrender the not cashflow positive claim just yet, its a bit charitable since maintance usually accounts for at least $2000 and more likely $4000 in the long run...

                              So unless the rates + insurance comes to $151 (Unlikely!) it may still be cashflow negative pre-tax.

                              I'm interested to see RM's response...

                              David
                              New to property investing? See: Best PropertyTalk Threads for New and Old Investors And/Or:Propertytalk Wiki

                              Comment

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