Apartheid here in NZ . Co-governance agenda of Maori separatists

[iwik]

Moriori are no longer considered to be from the Chathams.
"Current research also indicates that Moriori came to the Chatham Islands from New Zealand about 1500"
They were exterminated by the maori.

Proof ?????

[Maccachic]

Proof ?????

Id say archaeology

[Wayne]

Moriori are no longer considered to be from the Chathams.
"Current research also indicates that Moriori came to the Chatham Islands from New Zealand about 1500"
They were exterminated by the maori.

So they were from Polynesia somewhere, then mainland NZ then the Chathams.
Many were murdered by the Taranaki Maori (not Tuhoe) but many taken captive.
They weren't allowed to breed at all so died out.
In that sense they were exterminated.
But they weren't all hunted down and killed outright.

[Perry]

So no first hand experience then Perry - just more Chinese whispers?

Unless one was there, at the time,
all recorded history is history. And,
in many cases, (as you observe):
it was handed-down hearsay.

Those whispers against historians
and writers who lived back then.

That section you showed doesn't say that the party has to have signed the treaty.
Just that an act was done by (or on behalf of) the crown and is inconsistent with
the principles of the Treaty.

Lots of interpretive options, it seems.
However, where do those interpretations
stand when the Treaty of Waitangi con-
tains no principles at all? Not a one.
Can anyone find any mention of any
principles or partnership arrangement?

Have a read . . .

Her Majesty Victoria, Queen of England in Her gracious consideration
of the chiefs and the people of New Zealand, and Her desire to
preserve to them their lands and to maintain peace and order amongst
them, has been pleased to appoint an officer to treat with them for
the cession of the Sovereignty of their country and of the islands
adjacent, to the Queen. Seeing that many of Her Majesty's subjects
have already settled in the country and are constantly arriving, and
it is desirable for their protection as well as the protection of the
natives, to establish a government amongst them.

Her Majesty has accordingly been pleased to appoint Mr. William
Hobson, a captain in the Royal Navy to be Governor of such parts of
New Zealand as may now or hereafter be ceded to Her Majesty and
proposes to the chiefs of the Confederation of United Tribes of New
Zealand and the other chiefs to agree to the following articles.

Article first

The chiefs of the Confederation of the United Tribes and the other
chiefs who have not joined the confederation, cede to the Queen of
England for ever the entire Sovereignty of their country.

Article second

The Queen of England confirms and guarantees to the chiefs and the
tribes and to all the people of New Zealand, the possession of their
lands, dwellings and all their property. But the chiefs of the
Confederation of United Tribes and the other chiefs grant to the
Queen, the exclusive rights of purchasing such lands as the
proprietors thereof may be disposed to sell at such prices as may be
agreed upon between them and the person appointed by the Queen to
purchase from them.

Article third

In return for the cession of their Sovereignty to the Queen, the people
of New Zealand shall be protected by the Queen of England and the
rights and privileges of British subjects will be granted to them.

Signed, William Hobson
Consul and Lieut. Governor.

Now we the chiefs of the Confederation of United Tribes of New
Zealand assembled at Waitangi, and we the other tribes of New Zealand,
having understood the meaning of these articles, accept them and agree
to them all. In witness whereof our names or marks are affixed. Done
at Waitangi on the 4th of February, 1840.

Here's a translation direct from the Treaty, into English, dated 1869:

Victoria, Queen of England, in Her kind thoughtfulness of the chiefs
and Hapus of New Zealand, and Her desire to preserve to them their
chieftainship and their lands, and that peace may always be kept with
them and quietness, She has thought it a right thing that a Chief
should be sent here as a negotiator with the Maoris of New Zealand –
that the Maori of New Zealand may consent to the Government of the
queen of all parts of this land and the islands, because there are
many of her tribe that have settled on this land and are coming hither.

Now the Queen is desirous to establish the Government, that evil will
not come to the Maori or the Europeans who are living without law.

Now the Queen has been pleased to send me, William Hobson, a Captain
in the Royal Navy, to be Governor to all parts of New Zealand which
may be given up now or hereafter to the Queen; and he give forth to
the Chief of the assembly of the Hapus of New Zealand and other chiefs
the laws spoken here.

The First
The Chiefs of the Assembly, and all chiefs also who have not joined
the Assembly, give up entirely to the Queen of England forever all the
Government of their lands.

The Second
The Queen of England arranges and agrees to give to the chiefs, the
Hapus and all the people of New Zealand, the full chieftainship of
their lands, their settlements and their property. But the Chiefs of
the Assembly, and all other chiefs, gives to the Queen the purchase of
those pieces of land which the proprietors may wish, for payment as
may be agreed upon by them and the purchaser who is appointed by the
Queen to be Her purchaser.

The Third
This is an arrangement for the consent to the Government of the Queen.
The Queen of England will protect all the Maoris of New Zealand. All
the rights will be given to them the same as Her doings to the people
of England.

William Hobson, Consul and Lieutenant – Governor.

Now, we the Chiefs of the Assembly of the Hapus of New Zealand, now
assembled at Waitangi. We, also the Chiefs of New Zealand, see the
meaning of these words; they are taken and consented to altogether by
us. Therefore are attached our names and marks.

This done at Waitangi, on the six day of February, in the year one
thousand eight hundred and forty, of our Lord.

[eri]

there is some doubt that the moriori differed significantly enough from maori

to be considered a 'different' people

that's a at least by some ethno-anthropologists

certainly moriori believed they were different from mainland maori

crucially in their renouncement of war + violence

but there is no doubt that their slaughtered + enslavement by Ngāti Mutunga and Ngāti Tama


made them extinct as a full blooded people? by 1933

http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/moriori/page-4

but this was nothing special

as sadly maori had been doing the same to each other

for long before sailors and sealers

sold them the firearms that accelerated the process

........

the past is a another country

people do things differently there

[Wayne]

but this was nothing special

as sadly maori had been doing the same to each other

They just finished doing it later than the rest of us - let's face it, humans have been killing humans for a long time.
And are still doing it now.

[spaceman]

I was thinking of the one 50 years on (the bit I quoted) - that was 2010 or so.
No notification etc?

As for the 1st one in the 60's they had the Public Works Act where they could force you to sell if they need your land.
I presume Hone is saying they got no compensation at all.
Being in Hansard doesn't mean it is fact, just means that is what Hone said.

LOLZ.....if it's what Hone said then I'd imagine it's actually quite far from the truth.

Cheers
Spaceman

[Damap]

Agree Wayne my point was simply maori want justice on the front and mercy at the back. Their claims in that sense become unjust. And time has shown it is a bottomless pit.

[Wayne]

Bottomless it is indeed.
The problem I see is that the strange claims (airwaves etc) discredit the real claims and people lump them all together.
And then Gareth comes along with his tripe.

[eri]

Originally Posted They just finished doing it later than the rest of us - let's face it, humans have been killing humans for a long time.
And are still doing it now.


sadly too true

and yet britain still hasn't pulled out of northern island

japan even recognised the ainu as its first people

and australia given the aborigine something like a treaty

maori are the subject of envy

at indigenous people's forums

[Damap]

As they should be, what we let them do is stunningly ridiculous.

[iwik]

Originally Posted They just finished doing it later than the rest of us - let's face it, humans have been killing humans for a long time.
And are still doing it now.


sadly too true

and yet britain still hasn't pulled out of northern island

japan even recognised the ainu as its first people

and australia given the aborigine something like a treaty

maori are the subject of envy

at indigenous people's forums

Yeah and New Zealand was the first to let woman vote - we know
what is just.

[eri]

if you have a whinging neighbour

at first you try to appease them

1 of 2 things then happens

1 - they see you are trying to help and stop whining

2 - they see you are trying to help and double up on their whining as it costs them nothing and may get them more

who tolerates those neighbours?

[iwik]

Perry how do you know historians and writers back then were not
like a present american tv news broadcaster that bends the truth,
would say back in those times if you went against the grain your life would
be hell.

My mates family know through each generation that they had their land
way before cook turned up, if what can happen in the 60's re the link I posted
heaven help us how Maori were treated in the 1800's.
Chinese being charged poll tax, which the gov has since apologised for.

Different times - like the wild west.

[Perry]

Perry how do you know historians and writers back then were not
like a present american tv news broadcaster that bends the truth

Easy. Because they didn't have TV back then. Of course, I don't. Any more
than you can know they were not recording the truth of their lives.

It's hard to see how Sir Apirana would want or need to bend the truth.
You really need to read the books yourself, to make your own judgement.

My mates family know through each generation that they had their land
way before Cook turned up

And, of course, that wouldn't be Chinese whispers or hearsay, now would it?

Or, to use your own argument:

how do you know generations of your mate's family back then were
not like a present american tv news broadcaster that bends the truth

But if you hanker after the truth, perhaps you could show us all where principles
or partnership or forests or fisheries are mentioned in the Treaty of Waitangi?

Good hunting! Really, you believe what you want to. But don't expect me to believe
in assorted fictions.