Politics, Intrigue, Referenda & Economics

[Wayne]

The building boom stopped, in fact came to a grinding halt, read my post #536 and the line from the Treasury website. The building boom has not yet returned to the degree that it was in 2008 and prior to that date.
The recession halted the boom, Helen was PM and Labour were Govt at the time.

A drought over the 2007/08 summer led to lower production of dairy products in the first half of 2008. Domestic activity slowed sharply over 2008 as high fuel and food prices dampened domestic consumption while high interest rates and falling house prices drove a rapid decline in residential investment"

So a drought and high fuel costs caused a recession is how I read that.
Labour is responsible for the weather and fuel costs?
Unfortunately Bollard kept the OCR high for a tad too long (has been recognised since).
And unfortunately the Govt isn't in control of the Reserve Bank to that degree.
You really need to understand cause and effect a little better.

[drelly]

Drelly enjoyed the video however don't think personally that we discriminate to that degree in NZ, fortunately. Heard on the radio this morning a bit about the Italian ambassador here and have extracted his comments which are below. The last sentence says it all for me as I believe this is exactly how the majority of NZ'ers think despite a law being passed for gay marriage.

No we don't. But if it were up to some people on here, we would be. The point is that there is no "gay agenda" any more than there is a "maori agenda" or a "white agenda". It's just mind-numbingly stupid to think there is one.

[Meehole]

So a drought and high fuel costs caused a recession is how I read that.
Labour is responsible for the weather and fuel costs?
Unfortunately Bollard kept the OCR high for a tad too long (has been recognised since).
And unfortunately the Govt isn't in control of the Reserve Bank to that degree.
You really need to understand cause and effect a little better.

You shouldn't be so flippant Wayne, that recession caused a lot of pain, grief and misery to a lot of people. Unfortunately the way things work here is that whatever Govt or PM is in at the time will get blamed for what is wrong.
Why don't you just say that you were ignorant of the fact that NZ was in a recession prior to the GFC instead of picking holes in what I have pointed out to you and trying to construe the facts to justify your point of view?

[Wayne]

You shouldn't be so flippant Wayne, that recession caused a lot of pain, grief and misery to a lot of people. Unfortunately the way things work here is that whatever Govt or PM is in at the time will get blamed for what is wrong.
Why don't you just say that you were ignorant of the fact that NZ was in a recession prior to the GFC instead of picking holes in what I have pointed out to you and trying to construe the facts to justify your point of view?

I wasn't being flippant.
And some people who know no better will blame the Govt of the day for everything.
To be honest I don't recall the recession as starting so early - certainly didn't hit me till a little later than the start of 2008 and by the time it was hitting the GFC was kicking in also.
Maybe I tend to look forward rather more than backward so these things fade a little.

[Meehole]

I wasn't being flippant.
And some people who know no better will blame the Govt of the day for everything.
To be honest I don't recall the recession as starting so early - certainly didn't hit me till a little later than the start of 2008 and by the time it was hitting the GFC was kicking in also.
Maybe I tend to look forward rather more than backward so these things fade a little.

Yes and sometimes no matter how positive a person you are and how forward thinking you may be, it can be hard to forget a situation or event that had such a life changing effect such as moving country and leaving family and friends behind to secure work in order to live and meet the expenses and commitments of the day. Especially mortgages that had to be paid on property purchased at the height of the boom that quickly lost value and is only now after 6 years starting to come back to its 2006/7 value.
That I guess is the difference between someone living and having been there and someone who lives through what they read in the msm??

[Wayne]

Yes and sometimes no matter how positive a person you are and how forward thinking you may be, it can be hard to forget a situation or event that had such a life changing effect such as moving country and leaving family and friends behind to secure work in order to live and meet the expenses and commitments of the day. Especially mortgages that had to be paid on property purchased at the height of the boom that quickly lost value and is only now after 6 years starting to come back to its 2006/7 value.
That I guess is the difference between someone living and having been there and someone who lives through what they read in the msm??

It is true that the recession didn't affect me to the extent it did you.
I stopped purchasing properties before the peak because they seems over-valued so I didn't get the same drop.
The share market affected me greatly - dropped $100k but I held my breath and it came back and more (brought a bit more at the bottom - clouds and silver linings and all).
I didn't blame the Govt as it wasn't their fault.
I lived it (not through msm) but due to my different stage (having made different decisions to you) was affected differently.
And I don't lack empathy with you either.
I hope people who are now saying that property only ever goes up are reading this - they do go down and if you are in the wrong position (for whatever reason) you will be affected.
If you had had to sell (some people did - mortgagee sale anyone) you would be even less cherry.

[Meehole]

Because of the recession we became landlords by default. We couldn't live in what was essentially the family home as the jobs were gone.
So not only were we affected by the slump in house prices but also by the lack of jobs available to those in the trade.
We couldn't sell as there was a glut of housing which had been months earlier a shortage. Every man and his wife seemed to be renting their house out and leaving NZ.
2009 Australia was in a recession for a 1/4 before the GFC but they pulled themselves out of it. At the time we lived there the Govt was giving Aussies cash to spend to keep the economy ticking over. Not only that but we could have purchased a house and land package in Rockingham, just out of Perth for $350,000 and we were entitled to a $28,000 rebate as we were first home buyers in Australia.
Anyway that's enough of that, I can tell you for a fact that had there ended up a Labour/Greens Govt we were off overseas on our OE for 3 years. No way would we be hanging around, and probably once we returned we would sell up and buy a beachfront property up North where there's no work for us and spend our days on the dole fishing. Bliss

[Wayne]

Not only that but we could have purchased a house and land package in Rockingham, just out of Perth for $350,000 and we were entitled to a $28,000 rebate as we were first home buyers in Australia.

Now I'm really interested.
Being in the building trade why do you think houses are so much more expensive here?
And it can't just be the land.
In Hamilton you can buy a section for $220k, with a house they seem to be $450k.
So are sections in Rocky $100k or less or do we pay so much more to build?

[Meehole]

Now I'm really interested.
Being in the building trade why do you think houses are so much more expensive here?
And it can't just be the land.
In Hamilton you can buy a section for $220k, with a house they seem to be $450k.
So are sections in Rocky $100k or less or do we pay so much more to build?

Land is wayyyyy cheaper over there. Costs to develop land here in NZ is ridiculous. Not only that Council costs for permits are unreal.
We are looking at building a garage (14 x 7) and thought we should put a self contained flat above it - 60m2 is $12,000 contribution to Council, 65m2 is $24,000! Then the design costs were estimated at $8500 excluding engineering, geotech and any other additional work required to get the permit through.
Also the more competition there is by way of materials the cheaper the house would be, but we don't seem to have the multitude of suppliers like they do over there.
Cost of labour within the trades has risen too and yet the tradies are screwed down considerably to get continuity of work so someone is making money.
I had a plumber come out and change a kitchen tap over the other week, he charged me 2 hours labour yet I guess he was only there an hour? How long does it take? Then he charged me $30 travel on top! Guess he had to pump up his charges to make it worth his while but over $300 to change a tap is crazy.

[eri]

economies of scale come into it a lot

bricks and roofing iron seem much cheaper there as they have so much of the raw material

and cheap dirty coal to turn it into finished product

we should have cheaper wood framing

but last i checked nz 4x2 sells for less in japan than the local mitre10/bunnings

then we have various import duties (to protect less productive nz workers) and a higher gst....

death by a thousand calories

http://www.metricon.com.au/

[eri]

meanwhile under len brown, and his merry planners, it became impossible to buy a house + land package for less than half a million

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/house-building/news/article.cfm?c_id=228&objectid=11338730

[Meehole]

If anyone managed to find a price for a house on the Metricon website let me know. I came up with nothing, page doesn't exist after I had filled in the relevant data. Typical Aussie bull?

[eri]

keith hay in nz does the same

you can get search returns for a house under $150,000

but can't an actual price

http://www.keithhayhomes.co.nz/content/index.php?path=housing/search&contenttype=plansearch&categorynameid=housing&search=1&bedrooms=&bathrooms=&floorarea=&pricemin=100000&pricemax=150000

presumably too many other variables

[Maccachic]

keith hay in nz does the same

you can get search returns for a house under $150,000

but can't an actual price

http://www.keithhayhomes.co.nz/content/index.php?path=housing/search&contenttype=plansearch&categorynameid=housing&search=1&bedrooms=&bathrooms=&floorarea=&pricemin=100000&pricemax=150000

presumably too many other variables

They will give you prices if you ask them, I have just been thru the transportable house pricing thing myself. Can get 3 beds for about $130,000 ready to connect up around 100m2 from most the companies I contacted, that was finished excluding coverings and appliances and transport to site. You can tailor all to suit or they can redesign normally at no additional charge.

[mrsaneperson]

The trouble is that you repeatedly ignore arguments that are too hard for you to answer and don't support your point of view. You refuse to follow a line of thinking when you're losing a debate and head off on tangents more to your liking. You try to put words in other people's mouths despite them never having said what you claim and then disappear when asked to provide quotes or evidence to support what you say. You also use words like "apartheid", which to many would seem ridiculous and possibly even offensive in the context of what apartheid really meant to the people that had to live under it. I think most would believe that some things relating to race aren't ideal in NZ but you do make it sound like more of a consipracy (like your "gay agenda" views) rather than (mostly) just people trying to help others. So that's why I say you're irrational, illogical or blinkered, if you prefer it to "tin-foil hat type".

Here's a "gay agenda" video for you

From: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CstD6O95L-o

Exactly what words have i attributed to you drelly unfairly? The main reason you dont support referendums is because you didnt support the subject matter of the last 5 referendums ,you were in the minority vocal camp . This country & many other Western countries around the world suffer from the liberal "anything goes" vocal minority camps. No matter what examples i place in front of you to support my information that apartheid is already here in NZ, you refuse to acknowledge them. The Ureweras are in effect an apartheid settlement process that is now completely under autonomous rule by the Tuhoe tribe.Cold fact! The gay agenda has been well documented by a book "The death of right & wrong" by Tammy Bruce. Order a copy from the library & enlighten yourself. Tammy Bruce was a former well known Lesbian gay rights activist who has lifted the lid on what really is going on with the GLBT activism around the world.

When people speak out against activism of such nature they are labelled as homophobic, xenophobic & islamophobic. This is to try & shut down debate. Unfortunately you are also guilty of doing this to a large degree.

As for the video link you posted i suggest you read the comments posted directly below it to further explore what others think the "Gay agenda" is.

Here is a link to the autonomy apartheid :http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/9936055/Healing-our-dark-heart