A look at the future of NZ property market

[McDuck]

...how do you know I'm not a prepubescent teenage girl?
Cheers
Spaceman

Ahh, Little Miss, this addiction of yours to cat pictures now makes more sense, but the “Spaceman” name seems a strange choice.

Luckily we’re going to be talking about the use (and misuse) of names as they relate to the property and banking sector.

This brings up the first point, your usage of signs. While I’m generally in favour of the creative use of shapes and words, it’s going to be difficult enough for us to swap ideas, without you making up your own punctuation, spelling and valley girl speak. Your written thoughts don’t even start with a capital letter or end with a full stop.

Now, to the core.
Names.
Names are the primary element of semantics and therefore a good place to start. The word “bank” for example, what sort of mental picture might be triggered by the word “bank”. What might be some other related words and images?

P.S. Please click the link below for a light hearted reaction to your previous posts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkodTydUR0E

[Orpheus1]

This thread sucks!
Maybe you two should just meet for coffee...

[Brett A]

I am interested in this though as my understanding although admittedly very limited is that yes banks can loan money they do not have. Further more if there are only ten coins in existence and they loan them to you at 10% interest how will you ever pay back the coins as there are only 10 in existence?

By no way am I willing to get into a debate as I admit I am no academic but some clarification on this or source to research would be great.

[McDuck]

... at 10% interest how will you ever pay back the coins as there are only 10 in existence?...
.

Brilliant!

They create the extra coin by cheating of course.

Historically, if it was a gold coin, it was melted down and another metal (silver) added. This is called debasement.
Another trick was to shave a small bit off the edge of the coin. This is called clipping.
So the extra coin is created by slightly shrinking the size of all the other coins.
Bad luck if you earned one of those debased coins and very easy to do if the money is only recorded on paper- or as electronic bits in a computer.

The law, that you are noticing here, is called “ conservation of mass”.
“Conservation of mass” is a standard law of the universe.
Human beings can comprehend this law at about three years of age.

The idea of ” conservation of mass” is part of the way we speak, the way we count and the way we judge fair play. First mentioned by Epicurus (341–270 BCE) who, describing the nature of the universe, wrote that "the totality of things was always such as it is now, and always will be"

Here’s a YouTube of a child, tested before the ability kicks in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnArvcWaH6I#t=35

[spaceman]

I am interested in this though as my understanding although admittedly very limited is that yes banks can loan money they do not have. Further more if there are only ten coins in existence and they loan them to you at 10% interest how will you ever pay back the coins as there are only 10 in existence?

By no way am I willing to get into a debate as I admit I am no academic but some clarification on this or source to research would be great.

Not sure if SRS?!?!?!?!?

but here goes...

Banks can not loan money they don't have...it is fraud.... The only exception to this would be if they have a way to get the money ie: they agree to lend you money for a mortgage on 1 Dec 2014 and sign the agreement on 11 Nov 2014. They then have until then to get the money.

Just think rationally for a second...how is it possible to give somebody something you don't have??....it's like McDuck trying to give me a piece of his mind.

If there are only 10 coins in existence and you borrow them @ 10% interest it is of course IMPOSSIBLE to ever pay back the loan......this is why money needs to be created if an economy is to expand.


Cheers
Spaceman...@ McDuck....nice video!!!!

[Brett A]

Spaceman thanks for that, my understanding was that back in the day with real coins such as gold coins it was impossible but now with the digital age it is as its simply a matter of putting on a 0. Is that just conspiracy theorists?

So when another coin is created it has the effect of inflation? as in it makes the other 10 coins worth a little less as there are more coins in circulation?

Thanks for taking the time to clear this up.

[spaceman]

^ If by impossible you mean lending what you don't have...then you are correct.

Think about money for a sec.....if in the digital age all that a bank needed to do to create more money was to "put on a 0" how much faith could we have in that money to retain it's value. The most recent famous example rampant uncontrolled creation of money is Zimbabwe.

The "banks just create money" when talking about what most people think to be banks (asb/bnz/anz et al) just simply isn't true.

It is true the central/reserve/government banks do create money. If the economy expands and the amount of money created is equal to the amount of expansion then the affect on inflation is zero. Of course in practice to get the amount exactly right is nigh on impossible.

For a simple example

Economy = 100 coins.... economy expands by 10% then we need 110 coins....if we make 20 coins (120 total) then we cause inflation....if we make no coins we restrict economic expansion

Cheers
Spaceman

[McDuck]

...Banks can not loan money they don't have...it is fraud....

Think about money for a sec.....if in the digital age all that a bank needed to do to create more money was to "put on a 0" how much faith could we have in that money to retain it's value.

Spaceman

It’s pretty obvious that money does NOT retain its value, especially in the housing sector.

A few years back you could buy a house for three hundred thousand dollars, now that same amount will only get you (less than) half a house.
It’s no coincidence that banks are very, very busy in this sector.
It’s no coincidence that the banks are making huge, huge profits in this sector.

This activity goes on but is not punished as fraud, and for exactly the same reason a police officer isn’t punished for shooting a criminal or a surgeon isn’t punished for cutting a patient. All three activities are done under government sanction. In extreme cases, even genocide can be done under government sanction and not punished.

As for being able to give someone something you don’t have, I’ll bet someone could give spaceman a black eye without having one themselves. Mrs Spaceman might be keen to assist in this experiment. (This is a trick of language and cognition, and where the weakness in Spaceman’s thinking really lies).

[spaceman]

It’s pretty obvious that money does NOT retain its value, especially in the housing sector.....

Of course money doesn't actually retain it's value.........you'd have to never had heard of inflation the expect that...have you heard of inflation Mcduck?

...
As for being able to give someone something you don’t have, I’ll bet someone could give spaceman a black eye without having one themselves. Mrs Spaceman might be keen to assist in this experiment. (This is a trick of language and cognition, and where the weakness in Spaceman’s thinking really lies).

The black eye isn't given.....it is the result of what was given....like a lekker smack in the face (bonus points for naming the song without googling)...... we should do lunch sometime I could show you my practically unlimited supply, you could take as many as you want

Cheers
Spaceman

[McDuck]

Is that just conspiracy theorists?

It’s not a theory, a bunch of bankers just showed their true conspiracy colours this week.

Please click the link below to see the full newspaper story.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2832260/Why-aren-t-crooked-bankers-prison-banks-fined-2bn-fixing-currency-rates-clamour-grows-dozens-traders-face-prosecution.html

[McDuck]

... Here's a question to help me.
Why did you say there were 44 coins???? ...

It’s an interesting question, and frightening that you had to ask it.
Well, what’s really frightening is the realisation that there’s a good chance most of the people in parliament and the financial sector also might not understand it.

I said 44 coins because it was a good way to convey an idea.
The idea I wished to convey was “work”.

Due to semantics, I’m not sure how your mind pictures the sound “WORK”.

In its most basic form, work is noticed by something being shifted. Another good clue is that you will feel heat. That’s why you sweat to lift a freezer up some stairs and the cooling fan is blowing in your computer right now. It’s also why you head is warm.
The precise measuring of work was perfected in about 1825 by Frenchman Gustave Coriolis ,( at about the same time that steam engines started to replace animals (and people) in industry and agriculture.)

You can get a good idea of the work done by asking the questions, how heavy is it and how far did it move.

So, 44 coins is a good way to convey the stuff shifted by 10 coins in a day- provided that there’s some sort of circular path.