Killing roots in sewer pipe

[skid]

Ive just had our sewer line block for the 2nd time in a few months.
This time the guy ran a camera and ran the machine down --It was cleared but the source of the problem was roots in a spot under the footpath(not great)
The neighbor is livid and is a very hard to get along with character in the best of times.
So im concerned they will grow back and have heard about a root killer foam from the states but cant seem to find it here.
(from my experience it needs to be something that expands so it comes in contact with roots growing in from the top of the pipe which is normally not touched by normal waste.)
If anyone has found this product or has any other suggestions it would be well appreciated.
Neighbor has a habit of calling the council and putting up with the waste for 3-4days (until they call me)instead of calling me and getting it sorted in a few hours.
Obviously each time this happens the situation gets worse.

So far my options seem to be-

-tear up the foot path and replace pipe(which is a major and pipe is not broken -getting in most likely from joint)

-Put in a good root killer-(perhaps once a year or two)

-get it cleared by machine every year or two

-dig a trench between sewer and trees and sever any roots(this would be maybe a 1-2mtr long trench

Other suggestions?

Ps-the pellets they sell at the normal outlets have the disadvantage of only getting to the bottom half of sewer pipe

Cheers

[Grundy]

Skid - I and some of my property pals have had a lot to do with this exact situation both here and overseas.
Congratulations, you are more educated on your options than most and pretty much sum up the choices available to you. I can add though....
The foam system works but I don't reckon its available here. Overseas its done via franchise operators. It varies in effectiveness depending on climate and species of plant root. By effectiveness I mean how long between treatments. In effect you are poisoning the plant from the roots. Foam gives a good delivery whereas copper sulphate and other types of toxins to a plant need a healthy root to suck up the poison which means the roots must hang into the flow.
If you get to kill the plants or tree (or stop roots growing via a physical barrier) before the roots have cracked the joint wide open in the case of clay or concrete; or stretched the pvc joint apart then dead roots mechanically removed and a clean pipe with no dags to catch rag etc can be good for many years on. Machine or water blast clearing is good for fixing an emergency but long term dubious as different operators have a real range of skills from a novice part time water blasting house cleaner to a real competent drainer with rotating cutters who understand the science. The kiwi love affair with the weed called pohutakawa is one of the worst but so many other species can wreak havoc also. If you are planning to keep the place, my opinion is dig it up and replace with a fully sealed ie welded or solvent welded pipe and be done with it for good. Alternatively blitz the area and kill anything other than grass within meters of the line (beware I've even seen grass roots get into shallow sewers with faulty or old joints)
Good luck

[skid]

Well I went today and cut a trench (of sorts)--Hope it helps

Im not sure if we are going to keep this property for the long haul.
Its would be the first of our 3 to go,so I may continue my search for the foam or have it cleared once every 1or2 years.
The guy who did it seemed pretty good -he had the camera and used 2 different attachments on the blaster--he said if it reoccurred he would come back with a different machine that is electric and more or less scours the inside of the pipe.
Ive asked the tenants to do the once a week at night pellet down the loo (in case the root was down low)
Im going to canada this winter so may try to bring back the foam if I can get it and its ok to carry.(I think it comes in a plastic container with the 2 chemicals separated by a barrier) Its to bad they dont have the vapor foam guys here(yet?)
Meanwhile Ill keep trying and be on the lookout---Im saving the cement cutting and replacing as the last resort.(apparently your not even suppose to do it without council approval) Thanks for the input---just a shame it is not under the grassy area

[artemis]

Is it your tree or trees causing the problem? If so, can you cut it down completely? If not your tree/s and you can prove the roots are from someone else's tree, they are liable for costs to fix.

Why is the neighbour grumpy? Is his sewer also affected?

[skid]

The nearest tree makes the front look nicer in case we sell in a few years.

Neighbor is grumpy by nature but the sewage overflow out of the buchen was near his driveway---He called the council health inspector.

He was approaching the situation as if maybe he could have me flogged in the public square.

The council came and took photos apparently.

Im not sure what point it would have to get to before giving me a few days to remedy is not enough.

He obviously wants to go through the council in the hopes of forcing the most drastic measures possible.

His garage buts right up against the back section of our place.
Im not sure if that breaks any council laws but it would sure be nice to have something to barter with in terms of convincing him of the benifets of being a good neighbor.

Of course sewage is not a pleasant issue .but it would be nice if he let me get on with it,if it happens again--Im not one to dwaddle in terms of maintenence--Im on to it right away.

[skid]

Another thing that occurred to me is to drill through the footpath approx where the roots are located(we could tell by the camera and length of cable)
The pipes are approx 500mm down.
Drill down as far as possible and pour roundup or something similar to try to kill the roots around that problem area--Not sure how much it would permeate the soil though.

[Glenn]

I am always having root problems here and there.
I have used the pellets but have been disappointed.
You mention a buchan trap. They used to be used a lot in the old days. They cause lots of trouble. They are supposed to stop back flows.
I have found the best poison is 245T. Obviously it is not possible to buy it today.
I have used it with good effect on willows and it works a treat. I guess there must be some other stuff around.
The best time to apply is when growth is maximum.

[skid]

They say its best within 2-3 hrs after roots are cut or 6 weeks later(something to do with the stuff the root produces when cut to protect itself.
From my research the foam is best because it fills the pipe and hits roots on the top of the pipe as well as the bottom.(most the other things just run with the water and waste through the bottom 1/3 of the pipe)

But its as hard to find here as hens teeth--no luck yet (those that use it in other countries say good results)

[John the builder]

isn't the drain under foot path a council problem? it is not on you property The buchan is the delineation?

[Winston001]

I am always having root problems here and there.
I have used the pellets but have been disappointed.

I have found the best poison is 245T. Obviously it is not possible to buy it today.
I have used it with good effect on willows..

2-4-D is very effective and available. Just be aware that it is one of the molecules in the Agent Orange defoliant so treat it with respect. The bad chemical in that particular mix was Dieldrin and it was used here until the mid-80s.

I use 2-4-D sparingly by spot spraying and mixing with diesel to paint freshly cut willow stumps.

I think Tordon has some 2-4-D in it but mainly picloram - not certain. But it certainly works to kill woody weeds/shrubs/trees. Seriously - Tordon is the business accept no substitutes. Expensive but goes a long way.

Got something much worse from dear old Dad from the farm, in a blue container which I pretend isn't there...but 245T sounds familiar...

[skid]

[QUOTE=John the builder;333043]isn't the drain under foot path a council problem? it is not on you property The buchan is the delineation?[/QUOTE

According to the drain guy its not the councils responsibility--He says even though it under the footpath,as long as it hasnt gotten to the main sewer line its our problem.
I havent actually checked myself with then though.

The buchen is right up near the house--there is an additional access closer to the front border about 1-2meters from the area with past roots(footpath)

[skid]

2-4-D is very effective and available. Just be aware that it is one of the molecules in the Agent Orange defoliant so treat it with respect. The bad chemical in that particular mix was Dieldrin and it was used here until the mid-80s.

I use 2-4-D sparingly by spot spraying and mixing with diesel to paint freshly cut willow stumps.

I think Tordon has some 2-4-D in it but mainly picloram - not certain. But it certainly works to kill woody weeds/shrubs/trees. Seriously - Tordon is the business accept no substitutes. Expensive but goes a long way.

Got something much worse from dear old Dad from the farm, in a blue container which I pretend isn't there...but 245T sounds familiar...

Unfortunately there is still the problem of not coming into contact with the whole ceramic pipe as the foam does

[skid]

I found this product -box comes with 6 cont --only problem is that someone said on reviews that its illegal to sell outside USA and anyone buying would be contacted by the company!--go figure

http://www.fishpond.co.nz/q/foam+root+killer?rid=369904841

[Hound]

Install a dishwasher, that uses the pipe concerned for it's waste water. The ingredients of dishwasher pellets or powder will not allow roots to flourish in the pipe.

[Grundy]

Hi Skid
Didn't realise when you said footpath, I assumed your own.
Seeing as I now guess we are talking about root ingress through a failed pipe joint on public land then my experience is it all depends on the mood of the council fellah and which city you are in.
As an aside, on whose land is the tree which is the likely culprit?
Some council departments try it on and say its your responsibility right up to the mainline saddle or junction, others argue about the boundary as being the theoretical line. In any case ripping up council property (ie footpath) has its issues as well. Luckily you can imagine if the junction was in the road even bigger headache.
Had a case whereby some water or gas guys directional drilled pipe up and down the berms and bust every clay sewer pipe nearby. The owners didn't figure the cause for many months later after they all got talking to each other and collectively made council manage the remediation somehow. It can get real messy finger pointing and all, imagine if you get approval and cut the footpath, dig down and discover the collar is broken ie no effective seal at that joint but your camera makes it appear from the inside as a good pipe joint, maybe it an argument then as to who built the branchline or even if the footpath or road construction crew chipped the collar during their work? I still reckon as the pipe is intact its going to be easier to kill the tree, fast or slow doesn't matter. By the way while its on my mind I recommend you avoid relining the pipe if some clever council bloke tries that idea as an option. Ask anyone in Aucklands Devonport about the expensive relining fiasco that occurred there in years past.