Trans Pacific Partnership Agreement (TPPA)

[skid]

I know this is a bit off topic(basically just on a larger scale) but is anyone else concerned about this?http://www.avaaz.org/en/selling_out_...YjaJbb&v=31965

[Wayne]

The TPP is a bit of a worry - much because the devil is in the detail and we don't know the detail.
There seems to be a thrust, in this age of globalisation, for multi-national corporations to try to control governments to their own ends.
The TPP was proceeding swimmingly until the US got involved. Now everything has to suit them and most things the US wants to do don't suit little old NZ.

[skid]

Once we join, we as a country can actually be sued in the international court for lost profits from corporations like Philip Morris-(they're suing Australia for passing legislation banning tobacco for teenagers) Pharmaceutical co. could sue NZ for Pharmac sourcing affordable drugs for all of us Etc etc.
Pretty soon we wont be able to use the word ''Kiwi" because some corp.will have a patent on it.
I heard that in the US the Polo club couldnt use the word in their notifications for games and tournaments because the shirt co. threatened to sue-
It kind of makes councils pale in significance--at least we can do something by signing

[Wayne]

and that is the detail at issue.
Pharmac is a bit of the thorn - it is successful beyond the drug companies belief - they are very concerned other countries might get their act together and copy it.

[Davo36]

I'm not too keen on the TPP really. I think it will make a few people with export businesses very wealthy but the average kiwi will actually lose out.

Yep the USA has their laws developed by industry (they don't just lobby re the law creation and/or changes, they write them) and they're not in the business of giving money away.

[skid]

They even have a name for it--Its called the revolving door policy where powerful people bounce between positions on the board of major corp and the Gov. ie.someone moves from the board of Monsanto to become appointed the minister of agriculture for the Gov.(a simple google about Monsanto will tell you all you need to know)
IMO being separate from all that crap (for the most part)is what makes NZ unique

[Davo36]

Well they go the other way more often I thought e.g. pass a law in favour of Monsanto and then whaddya know? They have a very high paying job with them 6-12 months later.

But in some cases, it's a circle, i.e. work for SEC, then a bank, then another financial regulator, then another bank etc.

Cynical old me

[Perry]

As with all such things, all one needs to do
is look at the morals and ethics of those
who are pushing the deal the hardest to
determine how good it will be for whom.

It's ironic how those in the upper part of
the wealth chain say it will benefit ordinary
citizens; yet wont tell all those yokels the
details of how it will do so.

Ordinary citizens can see that King TPPA
not only has no clothes on but what's worse:
is also a serial rapist.

[flyernzl]

One of the strengths of NZ used to be that those had the top had spent some time in the company of those at the bottom. Norman Kirk had been a stoker on the Devonport ferry, Muldoon had been a corporal in the army, various prominent lawyers had worked in the freezing works during their university holidays. Thus they had some first-hand perception about the problems and conditions of 'the workers'.

Unfortunatly, we now have 'silver spoon' academics, lawyers, public servants, and politicians whose perception of ordinary people comes only through their fawning acolytes.

[skid]

PTT free trade agreement with USA

This issue has been discussed on the ''councils holing the country for ransom" thread but it seems relevant (to me) to start a thread on it.
Ive signed the petition against it for a few reasons (most are clearly stated on the petition info) but it really all started one night when I was watching the tube.
I basically had the choice of watching a horror movie or a documentary on the hard drive from a friend
I ended up watching the documentary. Turns out it was more scarey than the horror movie. It was this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VEZYQF9WlE


For those that dont want to take the time to watch the documentary here's the basics in a nutshell.
Monsanto is a mega corp. that makes herbicides and genetically engineered food crops like corn and soybeans(they are working on virtually everything that grows for food -rice etc)
The seeds are genetically engineered to resist the herbicides monsanto produces(Roundup)
That means farmer joe can plant a field of GE soybeans and spray roundup and the weeds will die but the soybeans will not be affected.
So they sell the seeds and the herbicide--innovative thinking eh?---BUT heres where the story gets dark.
The plants are also genetically engineered so that the seeds will not grow the next crop. So you have to buy your next lot of seeds from Monsanto and so on.(the genetically engineered crops have also been shown to have health dangers-but thats another story)
So those that grow with Monsanto seeds are dependent on them from that point on.The seeds start out dirt cheap(highly subsidized)until they have widespread use and then they get hugely expensive.(In India they went up to 4X the price.
Once the GE crops get a foothold they cross pollinate with normal crops and the normal crops become the GE strain and ,you guest it ,the seeds wont produce another crop,so farmer john is now dependent on Monsanto.(There is evidence that Monsanto has smuggled in GE seeds to some countries in South America for this purpose)
Monsantos goal is to eventually have royalties on the entire worlds food source.
So why not just ban the GE seeds from coming into the country(like MAF does at the border)
We are about to sign a free trade agreement. Under that agreement, that would be considered a trade barrier and we would be taken to the international court and well and truly sued.
Starting to get the picture?---.....I can categorically deny that I have ever hugged a tree---but thats just dark---do some research and you will start to see the price we will pay for the ''free'' in Trade.

There are other reasons why its not a great idea to get this closely involved with trade with the states(or more the really huge corporations that reside there) potentially losing Pharmac with ts ability to source cheaper medicines is one but it was the above story that really grabbed me.

If it seems worth the effort maybe sign the petition or do some research (theres plenty on google) (''The corporation" is another interesting doco)

[Maccachic]

People need to use heritage seeds they are currently readily available.

[skid]

I thought it was worth to start a thread on this issue (in general) Hope thats ok with those in this conversation--additional input welcome --the more who sign ,the better IMHO---Is it possible maybe we could influence the outcome? I hope so

[eri]

all you need to ban

is sale of seeds with the terminator gene

don't throw the baby out with the bathwater

if it were up to my hippy sister

microwaves would be banned

because they cook with radiation

and we all know radiation kills us right?

[PC]

I hope you're not on the wifi:

http://tvnz.co.nz/breakfast-news/warning-over-wifi-radiation-levels-video-5737840

[skid]

all you need to ban

is sale of seeds with the terminator gene

don't throw the baby out with the bathwater

if it were up to my hippy sister

microwaves would be banned

because they cook with radiation

and we all know radiation kills us right?

The point is ,you cant ban anything -thats a trade barrier under the free trade agreement--check out the case of India.

You dont necessarily have to throw the baby out with the bath water--but its nice to have the option of throwing out the bathwater.

Dont really mind what your hippy sister does one way or the other--She's not me and Im not really in that camp (although its an easy argument to insinuate I am.)

I respect your opinion but sense you have'nt really looked into it--but thats fine -dont sign the petition-Its every ones choice.