So Key is standing by Parata...

[Maccachic]

If the last system managed to pay them correctly then their pay system cannot be that complex.

[Wayne]

you would also think, given the purported 'complexity, that care would have been taken to get it right! Talent2 either didn't scope the job or are incompetant!

[Perry]

Or maybe both!

[Learning]

From my limited experience on the school board this is some of the bits I've picked up-
The school is allocated a set number of teaching units depending on the number of students enrolled. Say for examples sake 100 kids = 1000 teaching units.
The school has the power to decide how to use these units. for example 5 teachers full time, part time caretaker and admin officer = 800 teaching units for the year.
It starts getting complicated when teachers and staff start getting sick or want to take holidays. Then the school has to "buy in" relieving teachers with any left over units.
If a school goes over it's allocated spending then it has to pay the ministry back.
School roles have a habit of changing, kids come and go, numbers go up and down. The ministry can change your allocated units if there are big changes. The school has to adapt to these changes.

The mad thing about No(vo)Pay is that they can't even get the basics right.

If you ask Novopay to pay teacher X $1... they will pay X 70c, deduct a days holiday, steal 10 units from the schools allocation, pay some random stranger who hasn't taught in years $50, tell the ministry "a dog ate it's homework", and then tell you that it's your fault. Oh, and then it's up to the school principal to point out the error to someone who just doesn't give a $hi#.

Yep it's the teachers fault. (sarcastic in case you missed that)

[Bob Kane]

From my limited experience on the school board this is some of the bits I've picked up-
The school is allocated a set number of teaching units depending on the number of students enrolled. Say for examples sake 100 kids = 1000 teaching units.
The school has the power to decide how to use these units. for example 5 teachers full time, part time caretaker and admin officer = 800 teaching units for the year.
It starts getting complicated when teachers and staff start getting sick or want to take holidays. Then the school has to "buy in" relieving teachers with any left over units.
If a school goes over it's allocated spending then it has to pay the ministry back.
School roles have a habit of changing, kids come and go, numbers go up and down. The ministry can change your allocated units if there are big changes. The school has to adapt to these changes.

Thank you, Learning, for sharing this explanation with us.
This is the sort of detail which makes the teachers payroll different from any other.
At least to my way of thinking.
Does anyone know if any other work environment has this sort of complexity?

[Bob Kane]

I take it from this that you have no idea about what you have been talking about.

lol
Most probably!
I think Leaning has fleshed out the complexity nicely - it's actually more complex than I thought.

[Bob Kane]

If the last system managed to pay them correctly then their pay system cannot be that complex.

I think Steven Joyce said the old system had problems when it was implemented.
And after running for 20 years, the old system had reached the stage of running smoothly.

[Perry]

So the change was for . . . . ?

[Bob Kane]

you would also think, given the purported 'complexity, that care would have been taken to get it right! Talent2 either didn't scope the job or are incompetant!

I liken it to engaging a plumber or builder to do some work for you.
At the initial contact, you will be promised wonderful service at a very good price.
However, if they don't deliver then it is up to you to sort it out - kick their butt and/or replace them.
Bottom line is you have to take responsibility - and have a few plan Bs up your sleeve.
How responsible was it to implement a faulty system and switch off the old system?
Talent2 didn't make those decisions so how can you blame them?

[Bob Kane]

So the change was for . . . . ?

That's a very good question.
It could be because the old system was running on old hardware and old software which was hard (and costly) to support - 20 years is pretty ancient in the IT world.
How would you approach that problem?

[Perry]

Not my forte, so I can't say. But
your hypothesis might be right.

[Bob Kane]

The temptation might be to implement a new web interface system so that school administrators/teachers could input their work hours via smart phone while they.... nah, no-one would want that, would they?

[Perry]

Don't discount zany ideas. Seems the W'gton woodenheads are
doing something very similar to what you say - for the Police!
So they'll be setting a great example, yammering on cellphones
while driving along at high speed: smartphones & tablets.

[Wayne]

I think Steven Joyce said the old system had problems when it was implemented.
And after running for 20 years, the old system had reached the stage of running smoothly.

Steven Joyce is a politician so he would say that wouldn't he.
I don't recall the old system ever having these sorts of problems and my wife has been a teacher for a long time.

[Wayne]

Thank you, Learning, for sharing this explanation with us.
This is the sort of detail which makes the teachers payroll different from any other.
At least to my way of thinking.
Does anyone know if any other work environment has this sort of complexity?

Actually that didn't sound too complex. Where I work leave is paid at a differant rate - due to the need for leave to be paid at average earnings that include a % or overtime etc.
I take a half days leave my pay slip shows 4.5 days at normal pay and 0.5 day at slightly higher rate. The system seems to handle that fine.
I get some allowances and it seems to pay them regular as clock work. My kiwisaver comes out, gets to the IRD and then my provider.
My medical insurance gets paid.

The school system is probably more complicated for the Principal as (s)he has to ensure they aren't employing 'units' above their allowance.
(s)he has to ensure that teachers get the required number of release days (or half days) depending on their senority (new teachers get time out of the classroom for ongoing development (talking Primary here)) and some teachers will have management 'units' (team leaders get a day a week or fortnight etc out of the class room).
Principals seem to manage that fine but then Novapay can't pay the teachers!