Puzzle. Burn a ten dollar note.

[McDuck]

scenario; you like me have to wipe the oneness off the windscreen! [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/I]

Lol. ok ok..I agree, who cares about the transition, it's the resultant mess that you deal with in the end.

But, hats off to Spacie, his paradox is fantastically interesting.

Here's the same problem in a slightly different set of clothes.



Say I agree to shortly give you a five dollar note. Call it charity.
I hold out the money in my hand and you take the other end of it.
At the exact moment that both of our hands touch the money, who actually owns the money?

[Bob Kane]

I do.
You agreed to give it to me, remember?

[McDuck]

I do.
You agreed to give it to me, remember?

lol, nice try, but no banana I'm afraid, the agreement was to give you the money" shortly".

Think of it as a post dated cheque, or a real estate deal with a future settlement date.

I do like your idea of shifting the question into the area of contract law though.
However, you still run into the same time issue.
Think about the biological process to convey a thought. Electrons flow between neurons, words are formed, air is converted into sound waves by vibrating vocal chords, transverse through air, to ear drums and converted back into electrical signals...during that process, who has ownership.

[Bob Kane]

lol, nice try, but no banana I'm afraid, the agreement was to give you the money" shortly".

You're confusing ownership with possession.
You agreed to give me the money.
At that point I own the money.
It may still be in your pocket.

Or were you trying to say "In a short time I will hand you a $5 note which you may hold in your hand before returning it to me"?
In which case you always own the money.

[cube]

He didn't agree to give you any money, he agreed to give you a $5 note ..... and around we go again

[spaceman]

He didn't agree to give you any money, he agreed to give you a $5 note ..... and around we go again

Oh !!! OH!!!

can i play????

What exactly is a $5 note, if it isn't money

Cheers
Spaceman

[Bob Kane]

Doh!
Of course.
It's not real money unless it comes from 'fresh air'.
Whereas a $5 note is, well, it's inconveniently real.

[Glizzle]

Another simple matter that can easily be cleared up with violence's.
Its my $5 bill.
No ? how about i give you the time it takes for your house to burn down to change your mind.

[spaceman]

^ word's of wisdom indeed....

violence solves everything



Cheers
Spaceman

[McDuck]

You're confusing ownership with possession.
You agreed to give me the money.
At that point I own the money.
It may still be in your pocket..

Or, I was expecting you to go into the area of agreements and contracts.
So deliberately inserted the word "shortly ", in order to stop the formation of a contract thus shutting off all discussions in that direction..

How about we swap out the word "posses"" for the word "own"?
That should bring it back into the area Spacie intended (with original paradox).

At that point I own the money .

point?
A point in time or a point in space?... this is the crux of it.

[McDuck]

Just to finish off the train fly one...

On the surface, the Train and Fly are considered as two separate objects.
Considered at the very small atomic level, the Fly is a collection of many randomly moving objects, with a drift in the direction of the train.
The Train, when considered at the same small scale, is also a collection of objects drifting towards the fly.

At this very small scale, if the randomness of the atoms was to be aligned, the train and fly would start acting upon each other at about the range of a magnet. But the randomisation stops this effect from showing itself.
It's not until the atoms of Fly and that atoms of Train are at a very close proximity that their respective electrons deflect each other.

The train never touches the fly, the repulsive fields at a micro level tear the bonds of fly structure, DNA, and chemical bonds apart.
But mostly it's the higher order structures that are dismantled.

Yes, some of the fly atoms did slow some of the train atoms (momentarily), but the field effect cushioned and overpowered their advance.

The really surprising thing is that the fly didn't pass straight through the metal of the train unharmed, considering how much of an iron atom is just empty space.

So that's the geek answer, the real answer. Reality is weird at small scales.

[McDuck]

Oh !!! OH!!!

can i play????

What exactly is a $5 note, if it isn't money

Cheers
Spaceman

I) What? no argument against my physics answer to Zeno??
Anyway, the math and philosophy answers all overlap at the same place.
Guessed??
The range limit of the aproximate 40Hz resonance of the human mind.
That resolves all the paradoxes. Perhaps only one quarter of the 40Hz wave is needed to be a consciousness, that means blank space storage and retrieval gaps in the other three quarters of each cycle, likely there is a residual chemical carryover similar to persistence of vision. A topographic type wave that self corrects and is phase distorted and superimposed briefly in the transitions. Quantum overlays are being hinted at.
Basically Zeno accurately deduced the nature of the mind by seeing it's limits. Go Zeno.

II) Re your money question...
What about defining a subset of money to discuss it's various attributes. Say - just New Zealand money?
My guess is that it has three major contracts, a) with other people (and groups of people).
b) with nature and it's laws, and c) depending on your culture, with God.

[kapitibeanman]

At last I can understand.

[Bob Kane]

You're making a big mistake, McDuck.

[McDuck]

You're making a big mistake, McDuck.

You're making a big mistake, McDuck.

lol, no doubt you're right.
But if you mean the possibility of getting Spacie fired up again, no, he's out of steam I think.
Like me he's realised that money is what the bulk of the public believe it to be.
Like a computer or automobile, you can use money just fine without having any idea how it works.
And like a computer and automobile, a few people at the top can become super rich and powerful by knowing how it works better than anyone else.