Power companies - who pays between tenants?

[hufty]

I have attached my email coversation with power company Nova over some small power costs between tenants. Email should explain its self.



Subject: TNO 295058 New tenant : 272165 Yours
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 11:44:15 +1200
From: dhaydon
To: huftys
Hi Angela & Mark
We have been advised that you have new tenants moving into 22 XXXXXX Street, Lower Vogeltown on 11/4/12. This premise has been vacant since 21 Feb and there has been a slight usage. We will need to bill on this before signing in the new tenants R & D XXXX, so we need to know if this is alright with you to send you the invoice for the prior usage.
Please confirm by this email or calling us on 0800 668 236 opt 3.
Kind Regards
Donna


From: huftys
To: dhaydon
Subject: RE: TNO 295058 New tenant : 272165 Yours
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 03:44:53 +0000
Hello Donna

That is correct that tenants are moving around that date. As for power usage, I would think that there wouldnt be any as the main has been turned off and the property unoccupied since we took back the property. How much power are we talking about?

Regards
Mark



Hi Mark
So far the usage has been minimal.
On the first meter read on 9/3/12 the usage from 21/2/12 was 27 kwh
On the second meter read on 9/3/12 the usage from 21/2/12 was 51 kwh
No usage on the 3rd meter or the gas. So a total usage so far is 78 kwh
I am not sure when you would have turned off the mains and the hot water cylinder.
The next reading is due on the 11/4/12 and this is the one we would us to final the account and sign in the new tenant. Feel free to take your own reads and call them through to us.
Regards
Donna

Donna Haydon | Customer Care Agent
|)| 0800 668 236 |2| 07 307 0922 |*|
|+| 52 Commerce Street | PO Box 404 | Whakatane |

From: huftys
Sent: Friday, 6 April 2012 7:49 a.m.
To: Donna Haydon
Subject: FW: TNO 295058 New tenant : 272165 Yours
Hello Donna

I talked to my wife last night about the property concerned and I stand corrected. I was out of town when the property was vacated (as I am now) and power main was never switched off. She has told me that the neighbour said lights had been left on after tenant left for a period of time until my wife visited the property. I would assume that water heater would also have be left on, as more often than not they are, but I cannot confirm.

So that would explain power usage you have identified.

Regards
Mark


Subject: RE: TNO 295058 New tenant : 272165 Yours
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 11:38:08 +1200
From: dhaydon
To: huftys

Hi Mark
Thank you for your reply. So are you are ok for the small usage to be sent to you and then we can proceed to sign up the new tenant and have the power reconnected for them tomorrow.
Regards
Donna

From: huftys
Sent: Wednesday, 11 April 2012 12:33 a.m.
To: Donna Haydon
Subject: RE: TNO 295058 New tenant : 272165 Yours
Hello Donna

Why would you think this cost is ours?

Regards
Mark


Subject: RE: TNO 295058 New tenant : 272165 Yours
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2012 10:36:52 +1200
From: dhaydon
To: huftys

Hi again Mark
As the own any usage in between tenants is the owners responsibility if power is left on and should not be the new tenants do you agree? We have to charge someone for this.
As an owner it is worth while turning all power supply off at the mains in the house as well as the hot water cylinder to prevent any un necessary use in between tenants.
Regards
Donna


To dhaydon
Hello Donna

From what authority does 'As the own any usage in between tenants is the owners responsibility if power is left on' come from. That is a first for me.
I do agree, a new customer should not be charged for power they haven't used. But you feel we should be charged for power we havent used.
As building owner, we don't see it is our role to ensure power is not being used at a vacant property (although we normally would) We have not asked for power supply, nor used power or even considered it would have been left connected. The building has been unoccupied since the days you have mentioned.
Responsible parties in my opinion, are Nova for leaving power connected and possibly (to a lesser degree) the previous occupier. Once again, it is not up to us as property owner to minimise your loss! Perhaps billing the next door neighbour who noticed the lights on and informed us would be an option!
I await your feedback.
Regards
Mark

[hufty]

And the feedback

Hi Mark



I am sorry you feel so strongly about this. It is not our policy to disconnect a vacant site unless we see a large usage, and this was done once we noticed power usage. There is a fee of $120 that we are charged by the contractor to DC or Reco a site that we incure.



I have arranged for the reco today but as this is now under dispute we will have to disconnect until payment for the usage is sorted, as we will be unable to attach the new tenant now unless they are happy to take on the premise with the last tenant vacating reads.



Regards

Donna

[Davo36]

You're being a dick about it mate, you should have just paid it (it must have been small amount).

Ow you've just talked yourself into a higher bill. And rather rudely I thought too.

[PatMat]

78kWh is some $15 isn't it? Well that's a fortune worth disputing!

[LondonKiwi]

The power company is right - the landlord / property owner pays between tenants - like they say if you had turned it off at the mains then there wouldn't have been a charge. My advice is pay the cost, it will be minimal and not worth the effort to argue. For all they know an owner could move in in between tenants, use the power then blame the last occupier like your defense here.

[Ahar]

The power company is right - the landlord / property owner pays between tenants - like they say if you had turned it off at the mains then there wouldn't have been a charge. My advice is pay the cost, it will be minimal and not worth the effort to argue. For all they know an owner could move in in between tenants, use the power then blame the last occupier like your defense here.

Actually, not quite correct.....unless the law has change in the last couple of years

I used to work in the electricity industry.

I recall getting into a rather heated debate with some of the senior managers....my bosses

Another retailer was bringing this matter to court to get a ruling as to whether the LL was responsible for power used between tenancies.


My view was that the contract was with the tenant and power co......LL not being a party to the contract could not be held liable.


I was right


The judge told the power co in no uncertain terms that the LL could NOT be billed for such power usage...... that the remedy to "power leakages" was disconnection....in fact power co's usually disco after a property is empty for a month....but as there is a significant cost they would rather just be able to pass on any power leakage issues to the LL

If you pay you are setting a precedent for them billing you again and again....not to mention the rest of us....in fact I've had the same thing happen to me....told them I wasn't paying and to disconnect if they wanted. They backed down. This was a year or two ago....law might now be changed



Of course the tenant has to pick up the bill

[TheLiberalLeft]

While Ahar is probably technically & legally right, I still think they should pay it. Minor cost and saves the stupid reconnection charge. Just add the $15 to the new tenant's rent - perhaps you'd like to spread it over a year - 4.1 cents a day - that should almost cover it.

Like Davo says, you're being a bit of a dick about it. Apparently it's ok to say dick but not ***** (referring to other thread).

[Ahar]

Hufty....have you wondered as to the super friendly and chatty tone of the early emails?

This is becausse the powerco know they cannot legally charge you!

But did they disco the premise?

If not, then get your tenants to get in touch with the co or switch powerco's asap......some providers are reluctant to sign up a disco'd property

In the meantime, politely refuse to pay.....unless of course the powerco can direct you to the relevant legislation/court case which makes this your responisbility.

But I doubt they will be able to do that

[TheLiberalLeft]

Ahar, if hufty digs in his heels, he may not have to pay but the power company is also saying they won't reconnect until it's paid. We only have so many power companies in NZ so his choice will become limited as each tenant comes & goes.

[Ahar]

Ahar, if hufty digs in his heels, he may not have to pay but the power company is also saying they won't reconnect until it's paid. We only have so many power companies in NZ so his choice will become limited as each tenant comes & goes.

My goodness........they're not out to get him.

And whilst I said that some powerco's are reluctant to take on a disco'd property, it's not the same as saying that they won't....or that the current provider won't sign up a new tenant.

[eri]

many years ago i used to flat with a couple of scummy guys in an ex-office in a big city with 2 phones

one was a lawyer, the other the professional-bludger son of the high court justice, retired

when i moved in they told me to always give out both phone numbers as at any time only 1 phone would be working and the other cut-off

apparently they had discovered that if a phone had been disconnected for a couple of months at a commercial address

they could ring up and claim to be a new company, just moved in, and have it re-connected and the outstanding bill wiped

they would then just ignore the bills until it was cut again

then they would go to a pay phone, ring telecom and give the same story but the number of the OTHER phone and have the outstanding bill of that wiped of and then re-connected

i wasn't there for a whole cycle of phone swapping as i moved out when it became apparent that theft was both a game and a living for them

presumably that kind of dodge has been sorted by now but businesses, like landlords, have to be continually working to avoid the parasites

[hufty]

Thanks for the feedback

Yeah, i have been a 'dick' about this. Its not about the money (they havent told me how much yet - maybe $50 I was told) Its more about whats right.
I have property away from where I live - if a leaving tenant decided to play nasty, they could leave high use items running (unlikely but possible) and the landlord picks up the tab because the power co says it is so. Feedback would suggest that, majority of you would pay without question.

I am going to pay them and have asked for an invoice. I just wanted to shake the tree a bit.

More concerning to me was what they were going to do with my new tenant and family - cut off their power because of a non related issue, beats me. (*Hufty stops shaking the tree)

[Perry]

Power corrupts and absolute
power corrupts absolutely?

[spaceman]

While you may have been a bit of a cock, let's face it the power company are 100% in the wrong here.
The person with who they have a contract tells them they are leaving and they chose not to disconnect the power to make it easier for them...... They should wear the cost of any " leakage" between tenants

Cheers
spaceman

[NIK]

We had an issue with that 'lovely' ex-tenant of ours (10/00778/TG if you need to refresh your memory, and btw she is looking for a rental atm..)
She did a runner, left all lights etc on, plus the power company disconnected the power.
The wanted $ 60 re connnection fee and send me the bill for the power used...(nearly a month of power usage, she even left hot water running...)

During the TT hearing, I asked the question so who is to pay for the power used? as the Adjudicator was only willing to award the cost of re connection and not the power bill - he said that actually this is a 'grey' area of law....once the tenant has moved out and the property is empty - his words were - no one is liable to pay! He stated the cost of re connection was awarded as the power was disconnected prior to all the stuff that went on (think 25/05) - the power company never contacted us, and the adjudicator noted that it is the LLs responsibility to ensure the property has a power supply - as for the bill for the actual usage I was told no one is responsible for that not even between the tenants....
I was not happy with his reasoning but in the end the company stopped chasing us after I faxed them the copy of the TT order....and told them to chase the tenant...