Our full home re-wire done, a question regarding the bill (apprentice rates)

[beakernz]

Hi,

Our 200msq home was completely rewired. It was a huge job and the bill was for the most part what we expected it to be. I had a question about the labour costs. We had 1 electrician and he had 1 1st year apprentice. The electrician was billed at $49 an hour. The apprentice was billed at $41 an hour. That seems excessive to me for a 1st year apprentice to bill at $41/hr. I suspect this could be normal? I just thought an apprentice would not be billable for nearly what the electrician was billed for.

Thanks for any insights

[drelly]

You didn't get a quote? It's really up to them what they bill out at for their apprentice. $49/hr for an electrician is cheap. Would you feel better if it was $69/hr and $21/hr?

[beakernz]

Big job like this no one would give us a quote, only an estimate. If $49 is cheap then I'm ok with that, they did a great job. I am just curious if it throws up a red flag for anyone.

[TheLiberalLeft]

I had a similar situation with a plumber, but like drelly says, the main man was way more expensive and the learner only 20-odd $.

[jimO]

i always thought that a apprentice was charged out at double his pay rate, so he is either on
$20 a hr or your being over charged. I would query that account as a 1st year boy would only be holding ladders and fetching stuff from the van plus squeezing into tight spaces

[TheLiberalLeft]

Agree. You certainly won't see the more experienced guys climbing into the tight spaces. They can't - they're too FAT. How'd they get that way I hear you ask? Living well off the proceeds of those outrageous hourly rates, that's how.

[cube]

As a matter of interest, what was the total cost?

[unhinged]

i always thought that a apprentice was charged out at double his pay rate, so he is either on
$20 a hr or your being over charged. I would query that account as a 1st year boy would only be holding ladders and fetching stuff from the van plus squeezing into tight spaces

As an electrician and now a manager of a large electrical company I disagree. An apprentice doesn't learn fetching tools and holding the ladder, that is old school mentality. My father told me 30 years ago when I started my apprenticeship never to carry the tools of the tradesman you are working with, because you are already carrying your own tools. Apprentices only learn by on the job doing the job, not watching, fetching and holding ladders. I expect apprentices to be running wires, terminating fittings within the first few months of starting work, albeit under supervision. In regards to charge out rates, yes, apprentices are paid less, but also start on more than what the minimium wage which is currently $13.50 per hour. Then you need to take in to account the high cost of compliance, overheads, safety equipment, depreciation on tools, test equipment etc etc.

Where in the country are you getting charged only $49/hr. This is a very competative rate and quite a bit less than the going rate in Whangarei, but then again it may already be discounted for the number of hours worked. How many hours were you charged? I used to be able to rewire an older standard 100 sqm 3 bdrm house with an apprentice to assist in under 3 days or for approximately 40 to 48 chargeable hours, but this is dependant on the number of light fittings and power points in the house.

And finally it may be 30 years ago since I did my apprenticeship, and now spend most of my time in front of a computer, but I am not a fat bastard and can still get into the tight spaces if my smashed up athritic knees allow, so don't generalise, Liberal Left!

[jimO]

alrighty so what do you charge a first year apprentice out at???

[JABlog]

As an electrician and now a manager of a large electrical company

Great so can you give me your opinion.

I bought a Fletchers new house at a finishing stage. I saw the apprentice get dropped off and then picked up later. Now I dont care who does it as long as its done in a competent and professional manner. So far I have replaced all the light bulbs at least 3 times and switches keep failing and arcing when observed under darkness.

BTW Fletchers say HPM products in the brochure and actual product install is clipsal - is this any good.

[eri]

both blowing light bulbs and excessive arcing

are more likely to do with over-voltage than anything else

and the chances of that are extremely unlikely...


from google

HPM have always had terrible quality compared to Clipsal.

HPM kit is far too weak and flexible.. their lightswitches never seem to fit nice and flush against plasterboard..

I always buy Clipsal over HPM

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1543183

Clipsal is the first that springs to mind, but their prices are mostly a lot higher then other brands like HPM, Pulset and so on. From one on line electrical sales place prices for a standard double 10A power point: Clipsal 2000 $19, HPM $10, Pulset 6.40. That sort of difference seems typical across the range.

http://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=39207

[unhinged]

Eri is correct blowing light bulbs is more likely to do with a voltage problem, contact your local lines company. In regards to brand of products I have used clipsal, HPM, PDL and many other inferior brands. My personal perference has always been PDL first and HPM second. I have had more experience with clipsal switches failing due to current than PDL or HPM

[unhinged]

alrighty so what do you charge a first year apprentice out at???

I would charge out a first year apprentice at approximately $10/hr less than the tradesperson, and a third an fourth year apprentice at the same rate has the tradeperson. I was wiring homes unsupervised by the end of my second year of my apprenticeship. However it was always inspected and tested by the owner of the company before it was livened and he might call in once or twice during the day to check up in me as mobile phones where uneconomical back then, only the boss had one.

As an aside, being an electrician has never made me rich, thats why I am trying my hand at property investment so we can at least be cofromable in retirement

[klauster]

Why not asking before starting a job?

I totally agree with Unhinged. I only engage trades people on flexible terms. I’ve seen so many silly quotes, I would not even call them estimates and most people know cases of disputed quotes.
I define with the trade person the job, be involved in the decision making process (the solution) and pay the bill on time, material and labour focused on quality and results.
That is risk management for being under quoted, the trader wants the job and later he cuts corners. A transparent relationship between parties involved about the work, related costs and the expected results create lasting business relationships.
For instance when I call my very busy plumber, I can rely on him that he shows up even in his lunch break for a quick chat.

[JABlog]

Eri is correct blowing light bulbs is more likely to do with a voltage problem, contact your local lines company. In regards to brand of products I have used clipsal, HPM, PDL and many other inferior brands. My personal perference has always been PDL first and HPM second. I have had more experience with clipsal switches failing due to current than PDL or HPM

I investigated this, the switch mechanism was inferior hence the buzzing noise (when the contacts are not fully aligned and or the conductors are loose.