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Yeah, I've heard enough to think that RTB is a bloody dopey idea. Far too many fish hooks in there.
My story is that it's a place I want to sell to fund the build of a new holiday home, which is so opposed to the principles of property investing it's not funny (sell an income-producing asset to create a non-income producer). In my defence it was a totally emotional purchase. Perhaps I'll let the new place out as a rental. Or, shock, horror, I'll get a mortgage to fund the build.
I hate being in debt.
I find this incredibly sad for a number of reasons.
Originally Posted by donna
For the fact the owners lost a portion of their investment and I am thinking that it may have been part of a retirement.
For the fact that whoever set this transactions up failed to put in place control mechanisms and strong management systems.
It sounds to me very much like the wrong vehicle was used and that the appropriate checks were not done.
I suspect there is much more to this storey than has been conveyed here. But never the less it doesn’t change the essence or the impact of the storey.
I read a lot about people saying to other people to go and get legal advice about most things property and I happen to agree with that in most circumstances.
I also happen to agree with the saying that not all lawyers are good lawyers or really know a lot about VF and its variations or protections. A lot just can’t be bothered or property is just not there thing beyond simple conveyancing, we want to believe otherwise and often do, to our own detriment. I have seen some very shoddy work and I have also seen some amazing work from Lawyers.
Having multiple lawyers who are highly skilled in the respective fields is advisable.
I just settled out a 2nd mortgage with a seller recently which had a terrific out come for both of us.
not to mention a good relationship for the future.
The most Valuable deals that I have done since I started in property in the in the early 90s always had an element of VF, 2nd mortgages and delayed settlements.
So to hear such a sad storey is heart wrenching when there really is no need for such an outcome.
Last edited by donna; 20-03-2012 at 01:38 PM.
If there isn't enough equity/other security, and you can't either (a) buy the property back or (b) buy out the 1st mortgage so as to stop the iniquitous tendency of 1st mortgagees to sell for no more than their money back, then such an outcome is inevitable.
That's the rub in terms of people losing their money....they fund a 100% purchase without taking any real security. Anything over 80% should really just be viewed as unsecured, because penalty interest and costs plus the price stigma of a mortgagee sale mean the first mortgagee will swallow the lot, every time.
More and real security is required, plus the financial ability to buy out the 1st mgee if required, plus some kind of notice mechanism (if you can get it...fairly rare) where the 1st notifies the 2nd that the mortgagor is behind on their payments.
Originally Posted by TheLiberalLeft
Having just been through this exercise (just in case anyone had noticed my lack of input last year!), I agree it seems an anathema to sell a perfectly functioning rental to build a non-producing holiday home.
Given the historically low interest rates and the lack of work for tradies, is now not a great time to build?? It will take quite a while to get house plans, council permission, colour schemes (believe me this is the hardest job of all!) sorted.
How about looking at the situation quite dispassionately.
1 Sell the rental. Great, gives you flexibility/time to work out what you want to build with less worry about servicing a mortgage during the building. When you've finished, you'll have a lovely holiday home, no (little?) debt and somewhere for the families to enjoy holidays.
2 Don't sell the rental. You've still got to work out what you want to build and service the Council fees etc from earned income. This could be stressful in itself.
Worst case scenario, let's assume this property will be fully mortgaged. Given your financial situation, would the Banks give you money? Would these costs be punitive to your living standards?? Are you doing the build yourself? Or are you hiring contractors? (Rhetorical questions) With the best of intentions, IMHO, one needs to be on-site or at minimum on-call, for the contractors. Little things do crop up that need immediate answers.
Believe me, building a holiday home is an extremely stress situation. Suppliers do short-deliver, wrong deliver, don't deliver! goods when they're needed.
Make sure that your plans are sorted down to the finest detail ie number of lights and hot-points in the rooms, access to/from site and building, number of showers.
If you think you MAY need something in the plans, get it on the plans first. You can add to the plans later but it will cost you. That's where the buildings/designers make their money. They will only supply just enough to make the house acceptable, not necessarily how you wish to live. Those are two very important differences.
You can always rent the property out through Holiday Homes, Book-A-Bach etc. There's nothing to stop you using your holiday home when you want. Remember that.
Yes, it is hard to build something that you want and then rent it out. But is it going to make your life easier? Is it going to sit vacant for months while you don't use it? If so, why not rent it out?
Absolutely agree. But sometimes in life we have to make hard decisions to get what we want.
Don't waffle. Make a decision and stick to it. No good looking backwards and say "Oh, I made the wrong decision". No, you've made the decision, make it work.
Patience is a virtue.
I don't think the RTA prevents the tenant from doing maintenance if they so wish.
^Agreed....but there is a big difference between "if they so wish" and "required"
TTL - check that the bank will allow you to keep the money and won't use it all to pay down other debt (assuming cross collaterisation).
Thanks for the analysis, essence.
Sell now, but take the hit on dropped values, and cover the build (almost). Or wait for the values to rise (could be years, and the cost of building only goes up too, to match). Or pay in cash, but have no backstop. Or borrow the lot. Or a bit of borrow and cash.
That's my decision to make and it's a confusing one.
There are some right bastards around that's for sure.
Originally Posted by Wayne
I would first of all ask them if they are interested in buying. If they say no, you have your answer. If they yes, go to the next step and see if they can get a loan. If no, you have another answer, consider the rent to buy option if they are still interested. Be sure not to jump ahead of any steps. People like honesty (most of the time unless their butt looks big in that dress), so keep honest with them. Don't jump any stages, you might be surprised what they can come up with. Step through it logically.
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