Buying from Property Finder / Trader

[freeloader]

Hi all,


Anyone has experience on this? What should I look for? What documents should I request? What is the process involved?

[EagleEyes]

Property finders have a mixed reputation and I won't get into whether that is justified or not - but my question to you is why would you treat your DD any differently to what you would when buying through an agent? They are both in it for the sale, so you should treat your purchase the same.
Finders have their uses - they are out in the marketplace all the time, and often will just pass a really good deal onto another investor because they can't settle it themselves, or because its not the right deal for their portfolio at the time. It's like using any service - you are leveraging their time and market expertise. They tend to think like investors far better than agents do, so yes you can get great deals through finders.
But again, do your usual checks based on your own comfort level and the property itself.

[PeterEmpowerEd]

freeloader: Olly Newland discussed property finders in a recent column 'Dodgy Dealers' which was mentioned/commented on in this PT thread: http://www.propertytalk.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=22001

...and, if you're curious, here's a link to the original Empower Education newsletter.

[Dean@Massiveaction]

The process is pretty straight forward Freeloader. Most finders will assign a sales and purchase agreement to you after you do your due diligence.

So the only additional paperwork to a property you are buying yourself is an assignment agreement to allow you to take over the contract.

You pay a fee to the finder so you know exactly what money is changing hands and you actually settle the property from the original vendor so it is a transparent process.

Don't be put off by ill informed comments like these.
Most finders do a great job of uncovering motivated vendors for those who don't have the time and skills to do it themselves.
In other countries they are often referred to as buyers agents.

[WBuffett]

These "buyers agents" in "other countries" are they licensed or unlicensed?

[Bluekiwi]

I wasnt to keen on paying someone to do my work for me, then a deal too good to leave came up, so why not.

If the figues stack up thats all that counts, who cares where it comes from.

I looked at a house that a vendor wouldnt take less than 350k for, then 4 months latter a finder clearing properties from a bank had it for around 250k with a nice fat 10% yield attached.

Dont be too proud to take a good deal when its on offer.

[PeterEmpowerEd]

"deju vu all over again" ?

Don't be put off by ill informed comments like these.

Oh dear. Dean Letfus thinks Olly Newland's comments are "ill-informed"?

Hang on. Where have I heard something about that recently? Oh yes,... Dean Letfus' blog last month (24 June 2009):

As a “new school” property investor I embraced the “never sell” mantra and I could see all the reasons why it was good. In addition to the “why sell assets that are going up in value” there was also the luxurious thought of being able to say I owned 10, 20 or 30 properties.

I also remember becoming quite set in my opposition to “old school” types like Olly Newland and others who taught that it is good to sell down when the time is right and never sell was a bad idea.

So we go through the last 9 months in the New Zealand property market and I now understand why Olly
et al said what they do. It’s because they have been through this before and they are therefore wiser.

Their position has been achieved through the crucible of experience. And that is something we can do every day. Learn through our experience. I now know that owning 50 rental properties is a 2 edged sword.
And I was wrong to bag the old investors whose wisdom is well……. wise!

freeloader: it might pay to stay tuned for Dean's next change of heart or opportunity to grow into his
bold red underlined self-proclaimed 'expert' boots.

Bluekiwi: Well said. I agree. - P

[Green Fish]

The expression "property finder" is a misnomer: They don't find. Instead, and after attending some half-baked Richmastery-type course, they buy subject to conditions, and then attempt to assign their interest in the agreement.

They are c*cks, in my opinion, and I would have no hestitation in shafting any property finder I encountered.

And it's quite easy: Once you know where the property is, communicate direct with the vendor, and cut out the property finder. There is absolutely nothing that they can do to stop this.

[Dean@Massiveaction]

Which has absolutely nothing to do with finders but obviously having someone to attack constantly keeps you warm at night Pete.

Funny how friendly you were when you wanted something.
I note my attitude towards you hasn't changed. I still consider you a friend of sorts although your constant attacks with no good reason make that more difficult.

I hope you one day find whatever it is you are looking for.
And admitting ones wrongs and acknowledging the good in others is called common decency.

[Dean@Massiveaction]

There are people like that who call themselves finders Fish but in reality there are a lot of professional finders who find opportunities the average punter wouldn't. I think it's a bit simplistic to lump them all as c*cks, whatever that is :-).

[WBuffett]

To label all property finders c*cks would be a bit harsh, as some of them may be doing it for simply extra money rather than to s**ft vendor or s**w then down so far till they are f***** feeling like they have been well and truely r****ed, every last cent has been s***ed out of them till they are thrown away like a used c****m

[Dean@Massiveaction]

To label all property finders c*cks would be a bit harsh, as some of them may be doing it for simply extra money rather than to s**ft vendor or s**w then down so far till they are f***** feeling like they have been well and truely r****ed, every last cent has been s***ed out of them till they are thrown away like a used c****m

Now that's funny :-)

[PeterEmpowerEd]

acknowledging the good in others is called common decency.

Haven't I said you're a good salesman?

(1) You know, now that you mention it (twice) anonymous Slapper, I was at a small event where Dean was speaking last year (I was in the audience. It wasn’t the first time I’d heard him speak) and my companion and I were both struck by him repeatedly referring to me and Empower Education (and Olly Newland, come to think of it), just as you say.

Reflecting on it following your comments anonymous Slapper, I think now those references were probably part of his sales pitch -- rapport-building, trying to portray an air of collegiality, you know...
‘Oh look he's obviously pretty friendly with Peter. Peter’s been around a long time and some of us know his values (worked with good people like Robert Kiyosaki, Dolf de Roos, Olly Newland, John Burley, Martin Hawes, Mark Withers, Tony Steindle, Harry Mills, Andrew King, etc etc. long-time member & supports APIA, speaks his mind etc). We know how careful Peter is to guard his and Empower's reputation for probity...'

(OK, so maybe they don’t think that word probity -- who uses it these days? -- but you get where I’m coming from.)

Even though I’ve never done business with Dean Letfus, the way he came across that night I heard him, you’d be forgiven for thinking perhaps we had done or could do ... or that we were ‘peers’ who shared much in common. (Not that we don’t. We may do. There are just some FUNDAMENTAL and important differences between our businesses and how we operate.)

In my personal view and observation, Dean Letfus is such a skilled salesman he could find a way to name-drop or imply a positive relationship with anyone if he thought it would enhance his own reputation and increase his and Massive Action property’s chances of ultimately making a sale.

Does this sound harsh? Yes it does, anonymous Slapper, but I find your evidence persuasive.

regards, Peter

[Rosco]

Yes - use a property finder

Hi Freeloader,

Getting back to the original point, I think property finders/buyers agents are great.

- They quite often get much better deals than I can find. Maybe I could go through a real estate agent or look on trade me and find a reasonable rental in hamilton for $300,000, a good finder could properly get me something very similar for $280,000 or maybe even $250,000. If I have to pay $5,000 to save $50,000, isn't that a great investment?

- What is your time worth? How much time to do you spend trying to find a good investment property? Isn't this time better spent elsewhere? Like with family, on a business or just relaxing? A property finder greatly reduces your time involved in the process

Like with buying the property from anyone, you still need to check it out! And if you don't like the deal, you don't have to buy it.

Ross

[Puff]

Nice Dean. It is a subject that can get some going.
All as I will say is that there are (like all jobs) some average finders out there. But then there are some that pride themselves on getting great deals. It comes down to a trust factor that some of our clients talk about.

What I don't like is that some finders are finding deals with rents that sounds great but there is no history of achieving those rents. I like to see what the current rents/tenancy agreements are so I know what I am dealing with. Then if you provide a buyer with that and good equity you have done your job well. When you become experienced with this you will find much better deals than the average investor, this can save you tens of thousands of dollars.
But as for some of the above comments, yes be wary, get the history of the finder, see how many deals they have done over the past year and if still unsure talk to one of the investors that have brought from them.

If interested in going on my buyers list, send me an email and I will be in touch.

Regards

Mark

[email protected]