Financial Armageddon!!

[speights boy]

In 1930, the Republican-controlled House of Representatives, in an effort to alleviate the effects of the... Anyone? Anyone?...
the Great Depression, passed the... Anyone? Anyone?
The tariff bill?
The Hawley-Smoot Tariff Act? Which, anyone?
Raised or lowered?... raised tariffs, in an effort to collect more revenue for the federal government.
Did it work? Anyone? Anyone know the effects?
It did not work, and the United States sank deeper into the Great Depression.
Today we have a similar debate over this. Anyone know what this is?
Class? Anyone? Anyone?
Anyone seen this before?
The Laffer Curve.
Anyone know what this says?
It says that at this point on the revenue curve, you will get exactly the same amount of revenue as at this point.
This is very controversial.
Does anyone know what Vice President Bush called this in 1980? Anyone?
Something-d-o-o economics.
"Voodoo" economics.

McDuck; McDuck; anyone seen McDuck, anyone ?

So, specifically on this radio report, what were these missed targets ?

[McDuck]

McDuck; McDuck; anyone seen McDuck, anyone ?

Lol. Very good!
When I first watched that film I was only interested in the Ferrari.
Now I'm worried because the dry economic topic of" laffer curves" fascinates me more.
Steel curves or statistical ones...the curves have me.

But to your question... the gist of the " rephasing" report can be found here. V

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/budget-2014/10050476/Cuts-to-EQC-enable-372m-surplus

PS: I suppose any wider discussions re - evaluating the success of the present government ( in terms of their own business type view of reality) should be "re-phased" to nearer the election.

[speights boy]

I can't see anything in that article apart from prudent management of certain income and expenditure items.
Along with the to be expected criticisms from Labour.
Certainly nothing in there to suggest inclusion in a Financial Armageddon thread.

Plenty of other political threads for you to add your voice to.

[JBM]

the "Not financial Armageddon thread" LOL

I can't see anything in that article apart from prudent management of certain income and expenditure items.
Along with the to be expected criticisms from Labour.
Certainly nothing in there to suggest inclusion in a Financial Armageddon thread.

Plenty of other political threads for you to add your voice to.

Yeah I thought this was a thread about "Financial Armageddon" as to why I posted the doco on "Four Horsemen" based on the folly of Neo-classical economics,,,,,it was removed so we can talk about non Financial armageddon topics ....

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Moderator Note:
It was not removed - it was re-located here.

[McDuck]

I can't see anything in that article apart from prudent management of certain income and expenditure items.
Along with the to be expected criticisms from Labour.
Certainly nothing in there to suggest inclusion in a Financial Armageddon thread.

Plenty of other political threads for you to add your voice to.

lol. brilliant!

Of course you do.

If you get nothing out of this, at least take away the idea that:
When you hear stolen words like "re-phasing" or "quantitative easing" or similar unusual words being applied to economic policy or performance, be on the lookout for a normally repulsive action requiring verbal rebranding to be even spoken about.

[speights boy]

When you hear stolen words like "re-phasing" or "quantitative easing" or similar unusual words being applied to economic policy or performance, be on the lookout for a normally repulsive action requiring verbal rebranding to be even spoken about.

Indeed; I am on the lookout for "Normanally repulsive action" (sic)

Greens: print money to drive down dollar

The Greens have unveiled a new plan for "quantitative easing" that would see the Reserve Bank to print billions of dollars to buy earthquake bonds from the government.

Party co-leader Russel Norman says creating credit to buy bonds would devalue the dollar, reduce overseas borrowing, fund Christchurch rebuild and restock the Natural Disaster Fund.

www.nbr.co.nz/article/greens-govt-should-print-billions-cover-cost-earthquake-bonds-ck-130269

[McDuck]

...Normanally...

Yes... well.. You've probably guessed that I'm much more interested in the actual mechanics of various financial tools, than the names of the particular mechanics.

So I wonder,.. what sort of tax would the Government have to implement (and who to target it at), in order to redistribute power and wealth in the same way that the Greens would achieve with their proposed tool?

[speights boy]

Yes... well.. You've probably guessed that I'm more interested in the actual mechanics of various financial tools, rather than the names of the particular mechanics.

No, I didn't guess that from your post.

Well, in this case it's a bit more urgent.
The Govt is asking to be re elected.

Since Mr Key seems big on using business objectives as a way to organise society, then it's only fair that we judge him using the same criteria.

[speights boy]

.......... in the same way that the Greens would achieve with their proposed tool?

Well, even the Greens have woken up to the reality of their tool.

Greens dump money-printing plan | Stuff.co.nz

The Greens have dumped their call for quantitative easing - or printing money - after it became an electoral liability for the party and a future Labour-led government.

Green co-leader Russel Norman yesterday confirmed the u-turn after Monday’s release of the joint Labour-Green-NZ First-Mana report into manufacturing left the policy out of the mix.

Prime Minister John Key and other Government ministers have latched on to the plan to ‘‘print money’’ to paint the Opposition as economically radical.

Norman said it was never Green policy but was included in a discussion paper, issued last October.

[McDuck]

No, I didn't guess that from your post.

Well, it was their budget... Mr Key is used to dealing with reporting from his days in the rag trade, and he must understand currency from his years working on the Foreign Exchange Committee of the New York Federal Reserve Bank. but, like I said, this is a discussion best re-phased until to closer to the election.

So... in terms of honest reporting, should a $375 million interest-free loan to the New Zealand Transport Authority, be considered as spending?

[speights boy]

So... in terms of honest reporting, should a $375 million interest-free loan to the New Zealand Transport Authority, be considered as spending?

Not in my opinion; but I can understand if you want to say it does.

Financial Armageddon thread ?
Jeez.....just goes to show what a great job this Govt is doing in avoiding one, if that is your level of concern.

[McDuck]

...just goes to show what a great job this Govt is doing.....

Whoa there cowboy, it's a little early to be campaigning for your electoral party just yet.
Remember, a week is a long time in politics. Save it for later.

No, seriously, on this subject of honest reporting, and it's pivotal role in good financial stability.
Would you say that the $375 million is just being " held" by the New Zealand Transport Authority?

"Held" like this for example? V

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmRTlqyJqWA

[McDuck]

Yeah I thought this was a thread about "Financial Armageddon" as to why I posted the doco on "Four Horsemen" based on the folly of Neo-classical economics,,,,,it was removed so we can talk about non Financial armageddon topics ....

---

Moderator Note:
It was not removed - it was re-located here.

No, it was probably removed to prevent a flame war by Spaceman. Sorry you got sucked up in the surgical removal.

I watched your doco. Nice work. Good filmography and clean presentation style.



One sort of insight I got into the nature of money is how it's sort of like a set of scales:

On one side of the scales is real stuff, like food and housing and weapons.
On the other side of the scale there are counters of some sort, say pebbles or poker chips etc. You may call it "money".
You may write your initials in some of the pebbles with a vivid marker and consider them yours.
Because reality cant be screwed with, and the scale always works , real things can't just appear out of thin air.
Don't blame me for that, that's just the way reality works.(At least at our magnification, but that's another story).
The only thing you can do is add more pebbles.
And here is the big point.
You cant really double the pebbles... reality would be violated... the only way to satisfy reality and get more pebbles, is to cut all the pebbles in half.
The amount of pebbles doubles yes, but at the expense of their size.
I guess the point is, no extra money can ever be created, it's actually stolen from the people who already have money, by reducing the buying power of their savings or wages, and shows itself in the form of "inflation". (Accurately reporting "inflation" is another interesting story).

I suppose it's a way the government gets taxes from some selected people without them knowing.
Are the governments actually free from lager organisations?...it seems unlikely.

Ps. It gets a bit more involved when you think globally, and consider that the tool known as "loans" creates three time frames... past, present and future. Considering that you will exist in all three over your lifespan ..(and your genes and beliefs, in the form of your children will move even deeper into time) there are lots of ways to discombobulate the average Joe out of the fruits of their hard work.

[JBM]

yes fair enough

No, it was probably removed to prevent a flame war by Spaceman. Sorry you got sucked up in the surgical removal.

I watched your doco. Nice work. Good filmography and clean presentation style.



One sort of insight I got into the nature of money is how it's sort of like a set of scales:

On one side of the scales is real stuff, like food and housing and weapons.
On the other side of the scale there are counters of some sort, say pebbles or poker chips etc. You may call it "money".
You may write your initials in some of the pebbles with a vivid marker and consider them yours.
Because reality cant be screwed with, and the scale always works , real things can't just appear out of thin air.
Don't blame me for that, that's just the way reality works.(At least at our magnification, but that's another story).
The only thing you can do is add more pebbles.
And here is the big point.
You cant really double the pebbles... reality would be violated... the only way to satisfy reality and get more pebbles, is to cut all the pebbles in half.
The amount of pebbles doubles yes, but at the expense of their size.
I guess the point is, no extra money can ever be created, it's actually stolen from the people who already have money, by reducing the buying power of their savings or wages, and shows itself in the form of "inflation". (Accurately reporting "inflation" is another interesting story).

I suppose it's a way the government gets taxes from some selected people without them knowing.
Are the governments actually free from lager organisations?...it seems unlikely.

Ps. It gets a bit more involved when you think globally, and consider that the tool known as "loans" creates three time frames... past, present and future. Considering that you will exist in all three over your lifespan ..(and your genes and beliefs, in the form of your children will move even deeper into time) there are lots of ways to discombobulate the average Joe out of the fruits of their hard work.

Yes the Financial World is quite a mess ...and hard to understand at the best of times....maybe I'm just looking at it..in a simplistic way
excess bad - balance good etc

Anyway I do think the Neo-classical economics in place is doomed ...it has been great fun but just like an "Alcohol fuel party" it can be
great fun till the next day and of course drinking once again does gets rid of that hangover (GFC) but if you continue (since 2007 DEBT has increased another 50%+) the same issues that formed the first problem will only get worse and eventually be even more devastating economically(liver cancer)

Property wise I've heard many a time "Auckland Property" is a no Brainer 10% p.a av. long term who cares if you pay 1.5mill for a wore out old villa ....long term your make a killing that to me is pure NEO-classical economics at work ....and not sense

As we have seen in NZ our Household DEBT is growing and really getting out of hand Vs our Household Incomes ....either the latter must jump up or the former must drop it doesn't make sense that anything can just continue out of balance...and expect 10yrs from now the same worn out villa would be worth 3mill...and the debt to just continue to fill the growing gap between incomes and value...the WALL will be hit IMHO and it won't be far away "Worldwide"

[speights boy]

..and expect 10yrs from now the same worn out villa would be worth 3mill...and the debt to just continue to fill the growing gap between incomes and value...

Professor Al Bartlett.

The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand
the exponential function.